Hillsbrough Investigation

[Herd]

Digger have u ever been to the Old Hillsborough ?

Was an accident waiting to happen two entrances only at either side with no escape ,was like watching toothpaste going through a tube

The design was shit and very untypical of any other ground i know apart from brammel lanes away end !

Fences didnt help

Sheffield OB have always been *word censored* and out did themselves on this one even after they knew people were hurt or dying

OB fucked up and then lied about what happened but hey the country hates the scousers so lets leave it to the sun to demonise them again.

Remember Arsenal FC NEVER had fences for the reason that as old Mr Hillwood said after Ibrox that the pitch needs to be a safe haven in case of an emergency ,he was right and im proud to say that Arsenal never has had fences of any kind !

In the case of 89 the previous year people were not allowed near to the turnstiles and had checkpoints in to stop the crush ....it worked.

A new person in charge ignored the previous information and caused the crush and made it worse .

I could go on about this but suggest those who know fuck all about it refrain from showing their ignorance

Justice for the 96 I say and will always say it !

[digger]

Herd, cheers, but no never been to old Hillsbrough.

But if you knew it was dangerous, surely other fans did too? Pushing your way in to avoid missing the first few minutes of a game is (imo) the selfish act which caused this disaster, and that's regardless of whether the fans had tickets or not.

From everything I've seen and read about Hillsbrough, the police had to abandon the checkpoint idea because the scousers trying to get in were starting a riot of sorts - opening the gate was a damned if they don't, and evidently a damned if they do situation.

What would constitute justice in your opinion?

[flash gunner]

As Herd rightly points out Hillsbro was a shit hole and its easy to blame the 'OB' for everything but the blame should be shared equally between

the FA for staging a big game at such a shit ground

The police for not managing it better

and the Liverpool fans for turning up late and forcing there way through the cordens and gates outside the ground (if you see the footage outside the ground the crush could/would have easily happened then) and i believe the police felt they had no choice but to open the gates they then tried to cover it up which is equally appalling

The blame should be shared equally between them IMO

As i said the 96 who died where in the main the innocent ones who got in the ground early and were crushed by the weight behind them.

What are the familes looking for? Is these documents being out justice? or are they after compensation? or are they looing for criminal charges against the police?

[Herd]

I never said the mickeys were innocent ,but only the OB could have and should have prevented the tragedy.

But they didn't and many dibblke claimed many thousands of pounds of compensation from the trauma they suffered whilst beating fans back whilst they died whilst the families got short changed .

I'm far from being a scouse apologist but a lot of people like our digger here know fuck all about it but continue to put their five eggs in about a disaster that 96 people died in !

THE FAMILIES DON'T WANT MONEY THEY WANT THE TRUTH TOLD THAT'S ALL.

I REPEAT I WANT JUSTICE FOR THE 96 !

[DB10GOONER]

DB you are one c**t and as usual you dont read ........i dont say that all mickeys were innocent that day did I !

As usual you put your own personal dislike of me outing u for being the malevolent dwarf that you undoubtedly are to continue your petty squabbles with me.

But like the Murphys I'm not bitter !

Oops - I seem to have touched a nerve there...

Rahim, less of the keyboard warrior cuntiness now. Play nice. But get the homework done first - you don't want to end up working in a Nike sweatshop now, do you?

[Boomer]

Sadly it was a recipe for disaster.

Firstly you had Hillsborough. An old and outdated stadium with no regards to safety.
Then you have the OB who was unprepared and am I right in saying the Commander in Chief had never been in charge of a football match, let alone a large event?

Lastly you have the Scousers outside, ticketless (most drunk) that were causing trouble outside. This is two fold in that most turned up late which was the reason why there were large crowds outside plus adding to those without tickets. As the game started the fans were getting restless. The police failed to deal with the situation and rather the control the crowd outside stupidly decided to open the (flood) gates which was akin to a dam breaking and causing flooding inside.

Even then the Police were slow to react once people needed help.

[safcftm]

I for one welcome any investigation into the events and any release of documents relating to it. Its obvious to most that Liverpool supporters need to accept a share of the blame for events but, that being said, whether police officers are retired or not, it is important as far as I'm concerned that anyone involved in the tragedy and any failings by any organisation (be it the FA, the police or whoever) be highlighted. It may seem a bit late to be dragging it up but the fact is there are many families who saw loved ones do what so many of us do each week and go to the football, only they never saw them return. It is only fair for those people that the events of that day be fully disclosed so that they can have some form of closure.

I'm sure most people on here have read a fair bit about the disaster, but heres a link for anyone who hasnt http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/hi ... ldup1.shtm

Now, it might be a one sided account, but it makes a lot of comment on the standard of policing that day and the decisions which were taken which could, if different decisions had been made, have saved many lives. We still see today how the police treat football fans like animals- here we are spending thousands of pounds each and every year to follow our teams and yet we arent even granted the slightest modicum of respect from the police officers who consider themselves "above" football fans. If an investigation proves the fans were badly treated by the police, it might give cause for the police to look at how they still handle fans today and it will give closure for the people who survived and the people who lost loved ones. Whether the blame lies solely with the fans or whether the authorities need to accept a part of the blame, I think it is for the best that the diaster is fully examined and I hope that justice is served for those that died and for their families. To use a well known LFC phrase, a lot of fellow football fans died that day and there are still many questions to be answered and until such time as adequate answers are provided, football fans owe it to the fans who lost their lives and to their families to keep asking the questions- they'll never walk alone. JFT96.

[Boomer]

Back to Diggers point. The investigation report was locked away so no-one knows what the findings were.

The JFT96 simply want the truth of this report.
Had the Government decided to not release the papers then it would have sounded like a cover up. But that's how it's always appeared.
Once they have been released there will be full transparency.

[Nos89]

Am I the only person who doesn't really get what the scousers are trying to achieve here? Passing the blame onto a bunch of retired policemen and removing any element of blame from the hundreds of scousers who rushed the gates?

Anyone care to enlighten me? The press seem to be jizzing their pants over it.

From what i understand it's what happened in the ground once it became acutely noticeable what was happening. It was the lack of action from the police, not opening gates, not allowing ambulances into the ground and the complete lack of medical care. Also, the police report concludes events at 3.15, when in reality it carried on much longer.
No one has ever been held accountable for the events. The chief constable, Peter Wright, in charge on that day passed away in september and with thatcher's ailing health it's not surprising the papers are being released as those that could be held accountable, are no longer around to answer questions on why there was a cover up.
Even with the volume of people involved, regardless of how they got in, a lot of those lives could have been saved. Had we got to that semi final, it could well have happened to our supporters, it just happened to be Liverpool.

[Perryashburtongroves]

I've always wondered if we would have had the same media reaction and constant dragging up of the incident, if it was fans of Forest who had died that day? Yes it was a terrible thing to happen but it's amazing that yet again, the scousers won't take any blame at all for this- just like Heysel. It amazes me that this is brought up every few months but any mention of 39 Italian fans killed at Heysel is forgotten about or brushed under the carpet. It took Liverpool 20 years to even acknowledge it in public, they didn't even ban the supporters who were eventually banged up for it and anybody even today who blames the mousers gets a load of abuse from the Miseryside mafia.

Hillsborough was a disaster, 96 people died that shouldn't have but really, were the old bill totally responsible for it all? I think there are a lot of people out there that would actually like somebody to admit that the previous behaviour of scousers, the ticketless fans and the jibbers all contributed to the events that unfolded. What I don't like is this scouser induced 'holier than thou' attitude that everyone else was to blame other than them and that the world has to listen to them, that their's is the only view.

It's funny that they want people strung up for Hillsborough but think that a card display, a five-a-side and a plaque is adequate enough to apologise for and remember the 39 Juventus fans.

[arseofacrow]

Herd - What did the Old Bill do to you mate, to make them so often the subject of your bile? Did they stitch you up, send you down, and transport you off to colonies, to spend the rest of your days sewing clothes in a malaysian sweat shop (where the police hoped you would appreciate the irony of the aformentioned stitch up)?

[flash gunner]

Am I the only person who doesn't really get what the scousers are trying to achieve here? Passing the blame onto a bunch of retired policemen and removing any element of blame from the hundreds of scousers who rushed the gates?

Anyone care to enlighten me? The press seem to be jizzing their pants over it.

From what i understand it's what happened in the ground once it became acutely noticeable what was happening. It was the lack of action from the police, not opening gates, not allowing ambulances into the ground and the complete lack of medical care. Also, the police report concludes events at 3.15, when in reality it carried on much longer.
No one has ever been held accountable for the events. The chief constable, Peter Wright, in charge on that day passed away in september and with thatcher's ailing health it's not surprising the papers are being released as those that could be held accountable, are no longer around to answer questions on why there was a cover up.
Even with the volume of people involved, regardless of how they got in, a lot of those lives could have been saved. Had we got to that semi final, it could well have happened to our supporters, it just happened to be Liverpool.

Thats not entirely true. Yes it could have been supporters from any team involved in this type of tragedy and i remember feeling crushed at games around that time but it is no coincidence that Liverpool were involved. Only 3 years before their supporters murdered 39 Juventus fans and then blamed a crumbling Heysel in a very similar way they blame a crumbling Hillsbro. Coincidence? No chance.

Justice for 39 at Heysel

[DB10GOONER]

It was a tragic day for football. Tragic loss of life. And I agree that any Police officers that were criminally negligent should be punished (whether retired or not) if it is proven they were criminally negligent...

BUT;

I would also say that if that is the case then the hundreds (not a tiny minority as the "poor blameless Mousers" will try and tell you) but hundreds of pissed up Mousers that turned up late, without tickets should also be prosecuted.

Sure, it will never happen because of the difficulty in identifying individuals and then prosecuting them etc., but for me those late, ticketless fans are as guilty of the deaths of their fellow fans as anyone and they always will be.

But it's not PC to say that is it? Victim City can never accept the blame for anything can they? It is always someone else's fault. Yet these fucking mong cunts are still turning up ticketless and rushing turnstiles...

[Almunia is a clown]

Some **** I once talked to mentioned that the same thing almost happened to their supporters a few years before at Hillisborough when they were in the same end of the ground. I think is was against Wolves?

Seems to me that South Yorkshire Plod & The FA should never have allowed more semi's at Hillisborough, there also was crushing at the Boro Chesterfield game a few years before. This tragedy SHOULD have been prevented

Although the hundreds of mass jibbers that seem to follow the Mickeys away have got to take some of the blame IMO.

Quick Google search says:

1981, FA Cup Semi Final, Spurs v Wolves: Spurs had a larger average gate than Wolves yet were allocated the much smaller Leppings Lane end, resulting in 38 Spurs fans sustaining crush injuries. Police helped fans out of the enclosure. So concerned was the FA that it moved such games from Hillsborough for six years.


http://www.himg.co.uk/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=58

[digger]

From what i understand it's what happened in the ground once it became acutely noticeable what was happening. It was the lack of action from the police, not opening gates, not allowing ambulances into the ground and the complete lack of medical care. Also, the police report concludes events at 3.15, when in reality it carried on much longer.
No one has ever been held accountable for the events. The chief constable, Peter Wright, in charge on that day passed away in september and with thatcher's ailing health it's not surprising the papers are being released as those that could be held accountable, are no longer around to answer questions on why there was a cover up.
Even with the volume of people involved, regardless of how they got in, a lot of those lives could have been saved. Had we got to that semi final, it could well have happened to our supporters, it just happened to be Liverpool.

Cheers mate. That's actually the first time I've had a straight answer as to what the families actually want to happen.