As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Maybe the Mousers could help their cause by identifying some of the fucktards that turned up late with no tickets and thus caused the initial crush/riot that the police so poorly dealt with?
Probably a bit easier to whine on about the OB and The Sun than it is to admit you were (at least) partly responsible for killing your own fans.
If I was a member of one of the bereaved families (and I honestly thank God I'm not) that is one of the questions I'd like to see answered.
I have nothing but sympathy for the poor people that lost sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers that day - but this whole "every Liverpool fan was innocent" bollocks gets on my tits.
Mousers and FA both massively at fault. The police were handling a massively difficult situation, and IMO while they did make crucial mistakes they should not have to take as much blame as the above two groups... As people have said, it is in absolute tragedy those fans not at fault were the ones paying the ultimate price.
Justice for the 39. Those found guilty should have been banned for life, and in jail for far longer. But the Mousers won't take responsibility, as they never cunting do!
If an investigation can lead to improved crowd safety at games I am all for it.
The police always have room for improvement, but the fans have to accept responsibility for their own conduct too.
The majority of Liverpool fans are decent proper football people and over the years seem to have a respect for Arsenal, but they have a minority who are selfish and stupid, and the Istanbul final showed this, when fans without tickets or using stolen tickets, rushed the turnstiles putting crowd safety at risk.
QuartzGooner wrote:If an investigation can lead to improved crowd safety at games I am all for it.
The police always have room for improvement, but the fans have to accept responsibility for their own conduct too.
The majority of Liverpool fans are decent proper football people and over the years seem to have a respect for Arsenal, but they have a minority who are selfish and stupid, and the Istanbul final showed this, when fans without tickets or using stolen tickets, rushed the turnstiles putting crowd safety at risk.
and shat on everyone of the Hillsbro victims they publicly weep about
QuartzGooner wrote:If an investigation can lead to improved crowd safety at games I am all for it.
The police always have room for improvement, but the fans have to accept responsibility for their own conduct too.
The majority of Liverpool fans are decent proper football people and over the years seem to have a respect for Arsenal, but they have a minority who are selfish and stupid, and the Istanbul final showed this, when fans without tickets or using stolen tickets, rushed the turnstiles putting crowd safety at risk.
In Athens too, mate. And at our place. And by all accounts they still do it at alot of grounds in varying numbers.
The whole think seems to evoke such volatile emotions now even 20 something years later.
Case in point: Did any of you see some of the grief Stan Collymore was getting on twitter yesterday? He retweeted a load of them and was getting death threats, racist remarks and other quite threatening comments. His crime? He didn’t talk mention the petition yesterday on a 2 hour slot on talkshite yesterday where he wasn’t even the anchor presenter, thus wasn’t setting the agenda. Therefore this made him a disgrase to the club.
All this aggro despite the fact he was a leading voice in prompting the whole petition in the first place through his radio show and twitter. For Liverpool fans to react to one of their “ownâ€
Let's get away from the mouser bashing and look at facts!
The fact is that over 100 people were killed that day...... The fact is that the police were 100% responsible as it was they who were supposed to be controlling the crowd. They lied, the goverment lied, the Sun lied. It was an absolute disgrace and about time that the truth finally came out.
The police got away with it at the time because football fans (not just scousers) were despised. Because the media and government wanted people to believe that people like you and me were the ones responsible.
I've been at Arsenal games in the past when people have ripped down fences to get at opposition fans, when too many people have turned up late expecting to get in for kick off and pushed and shoved other fans. On the odd occasion I've even turned up at games many times over the drink drive limit (indeed I plan to be in much that state tomorrow night....).
And these things all contributed to what happened at Hillsborough. But I don't think that my less than perfect behaviour at football matches in the 80's deserved to cause anyones death, any more than the behaviour of those Liverpool fans. It doesn't change the fact that no-one would have been killed if the police had done their job.
I'm no fan of scousers and think it disagraceful how they steal tickets off their fellow fans etc. But that doesn't in any way take away from the need to have justice for what happened that day in Sheffield!
MK Gould wrote:Let's get away from the mouser bashing and look at facts!
The fact is that over 100 people were killed that day...... The fact is that the police were 100% responsible as it was they who were supposed to be controlling the crowd. They lied, the goverment lied, the Sun lied. It was an absolute disgrace and about time that the truth finally came out.
The police got away with it at the time because football fans (not just scousers) were despised. Because the media and government wanted people to believe that people like you and me were the ones responsible.
I've been at Arsenal games in the past when people have ripped down fences to get at opposition fans, when too many people have turned up late expecting to get in for kick off and pushed and shoved other fans. On the odd occasion I've even turned up at games many times over the drink drive limit (indeed I plan to be in much that state tomorrow night....).
And these things all contributed to what happened at Hillsborough. But I don't think that my less than perfect behaviour at football matches in the 80's deserved to cause anyones death, any more than the behaviour of those Liverpool fans. It doesn't change the fact that no-one would have been killed if the police had done their job.I'm no fan of scousers and think it disagraceful how they steal tickets off their fellow fans etc. But that doesn't in any way take away from the need to have justice for what happened that day in Sheffield!
Lies ? explain!
As for blaming the police, that's like saying "if I get into my car pished as a fucking newt, it will be the police's fault if I kill someone, cos they didn't do their job and stop me.
These fucking scousers were directly responsible for what happened that day.
Strange there wasn't a similar incident at the Forest end of the ground
They have been blaming everyone but themselves for every unsavoury incident they have been involved in.
Strange too that uefa published a report a few years ago that stated more or less, that the mousers were the worst behaved fans in europe.
goonersid wrote:Lies ? explain!
As for blaming the police, that's like saying "if I get into my car pished as a fucking newt, it will be the police's fault if I kill someone, cos they didn't do their job and stop me.
These fucking scousers were directly responsible for what happened that day.
Strange there wasn't a similar incident at the Forest end of the ground
They have been blaming everyone but themselves for every unsavoury incident they have been involved in.
Strange too that uefa published a report a few years ago that stated more or less, that the mousers were the worst behaved fans in europe.
You don't think the police lied.....? Have you actually taken the trouble to read anything that's been written about what did actually happen that day? Some people on here are still slagging the Liverpool fans off for stuff that was written in the Sun and has been proved wrong beyond doubt!
And no, I wouldn't get into a car and drive if I were "pished as a fucking newt". But if I did then I would, undoubtedly, be to blame. But the scousers that day weren't driving cars. They were just going to a f*cking football match. You never been to a match when you were drunk? Did you think you were putting anyones life at risk...? Of course not!
When Wembley was 100,000 standing for Cup Finals people were allocated tickets to particular sections. What people used to do was get in the section right behind the goal and then go back out with handfulls tickets to get their mates in the same section. As a result, it used to get packed and if you turned up late the police would make you go in another section regardless of where your ticket was for. If someone had died though would it really have been the football fans who were to blame? Or would it have been the f*ckwit who was responsible for controlling the crowd? Methinks the latter.
MK Gould wrote:. Because the media and government wanted people to believe that people like you and me were the ones responsible.
Heres the thing, it has gone full circle. Now we're supposed to believe that the OB were solely to blame, clearly the blame should be shared.
Im sorry, you dont just descend on a gate late, pissed up and without tickets and take zero responsibility when something like this happens.I want justice for the 96, not just the same blame-it-on-the-other-guy bullshit we got the first time round.
Real justice, while holding the OB to account properly, would also see the scousers take a long hard look at their behaviour so they can begin to properly weed out and shame the jibbers among them. At the moment its as much of a white-wash as the initial reaction.
MK Gould wrote: As a result, it used to get packed and if you turned up late the police would make you go in another section regardless of where your ticket was for. If someone had died though would it really have been the football fans who were to blame? Or would it have been the f*ckwit who was responsible for controlling the crowd? Methinks the latter.
No that would be different because at least they had tickets.
MK Gould wrote:. Because the media and government wanted people to believe that people like you and me were the ones responsible.
Heres the thing, it has gone full circle. Now we're supposed to believe that the OB were solely to blame, clearly the blame should be shared.
Im sorry, you dont just descend on a gate late, pissed up and without tickets and take zero responsibility when something like this happens.I want justice for the 96, not just the same blame-it-on-the-other-guy bullshit we got the first time round.
Real justice, while holding the OB to account properly, would also see the scousers take a long hard look at their behaviour so they can begin to properly weed out and shame the jibbers among them. At the moment its as much of a white-wash as the initial reaction.
I agree with this. I hope all the documentation etc is laid out and I hope a proper conclusion can be drawn and the families of the victims and the survivors of the disaster can have closure. However, if everything is made public and (as will be the case) the scousers still need to take some of the blame, then it will be time for them to admit it. To do anything less would be disrespectful towards those that lost their lives.
