As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
MK Gould wrote:. Because the media and government wanted people to believe that people like you and me were the ones responsible.
Heres the thing, it has gone full circle. Now we're supposed to believe that the OB were solely to blame, clearly the blame should be shared.
Im sorry, you dont just descend on a gate late, pissed up and without tickets and take zero responsibility when something like this happens.I want justice for the 96, not just the same blame-it-on-the-other-guy bullshit we got the first time round.
Real justice, while holding the OB to account properly, would also see the scousers take a long hard look at their behaviour so they can begin to properly weed out and shame the jibbers among them. At the moment its as much of a white-wash as the initial reaction.
You're probably right that the behaviour of football fans contributed to the deaths in Hillsborough, as it did in Heysel. But there but for the grace of god that no-one (as far as I know) was killed when we played in Heysel in 1980 and drunken gooners ripped down fences, threw rocks and generally went on the rampage. Glass houses and all that.....
Liverpool fans have already had to endure years of being wholly blamed for the events of that day so maybe it is now fair to focus complete attention on the police role, just to provide a bit of balance.
MK Gould wrote:
Liverpool fans have already had to endure years of being wholly blamed for the events of that day so maybe it is now fair to focus complete attention on the police role, just to provide a bit of balance.
Sorry, I don't agree with this. It's obvious to everyone, I think, that the FA and the police have to accept some responsibility.
The thing is that Liverpool fans do not accept that any of their people are in any way to blame. Some of them clearly were.
digger wrote:Am I the only person who doesn't really get what the scousers are trying to achieve here? Passing the blame onto a bunch of retired policemen and removing any element of blame from the hundreds of scousers who rushed the gates?
Anyone care to enlighten me? The press seem to be jizzing their pants over it.
I agree mate.Although there is obviously some blame to be given to the police,the Liverpool fans refuse to accept ANY themselves!!!
Red Member wrote:I do think it is a bit strange that Liverpool fans have been pushing for this review when anyone can see that they were to blame for all this.
if you dont have a ticket you dont go in. However in Liverpool land they seem to think that doesnt apply to them.
The 96 who died had tickets. They were to blame? At the expense of everyone else involved?
Have you ever written anything which isn't complete rubbish?
Red Member wrote:I do think it is a bit strange that Liverpool fans have been pushing for this review when anyone can see that they were to blame for all this.
if you dont have a ticket you dont go in. However in Liverpool land they seem to think that doesnt apply to them.
The 96 who died had tickets. They were to blame? At the expense of everyone else involved?
Have you ever written anything which isn't complete rubbish?
Sorry where there does he say that He says that the ones without tickets who tried to get in have to shoulder some responsibility.
considering they havent won the league since before the incident it's not that surprising they're still going on about it all. success makes bad things go away. they just havent had enough of it. the scousers are all about the small victories
edit: i don't in any way mean to disrepect those that died. it was a tragic event and is very difficult to watch the footage anytime i see it. im just going on about their ridiculous behavior this many years down the road.
Last edited by ArsenalSooner on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
i think the liverpool fans, who turn't up on the day with out tickets are to blame and because of there actions, innocent fans with legit tickets paid the penalty.
If you were the head of the police, involved in dealing with this game and you and your officers were advised / briefed that you were expecting lets say roughly 20k Liverpool fans with tickets turning up, and all of sudden over 30k fans turn't up, you wouldn't of been prepared for this, and all the organising would of gone straight out of the window,
sad day for football, but the fans without legit tickets - need to be accountable as much as the police
Red Member wrote:I do think it is a bit strange that Liverpool fans have been pushing for this review when anyone can see that they were to blame for all this.
if you dont have a ticket you dont go in. However in Liverpool land they seem to think that doesnt apply to them.
The 96 who died had tickets. They were to blame? At the expense of everyone else involved?
Have you ever written anything which isn't complete rubbish?
Sorry where there does he say that He says that the ones without tickets who tried to get in have to shoulder some responsibility.
Sorry mate, but in ordinary world "they were to blame for all this" implies this - actually, it means this. He didn't say some responsibility AT ALL.
The FA and the Police knew of the problems in that end for many years .
Arsenal where themselves there against Liverpool in 1980 in a semi the first of the epics that ended at Coventry ,and it looked very dodgy then.
The previous year to Hillsborough a system of checkpoints where used to stop ticket less fans from getting to the turnstiles,this also helps to regulate the flow to the turnstile,Arsenal have done this at Highbury from time to time .
The new Inspector bungled this and thousands hit the turnstiles at the same time,when the gates opened there was only going to be one result.
I have nothing against honest policemen however in the UK they are such a rare commodity.
Sorry lads but that is bollocks. There is good and bad in EVERY walk of life, there shouldnt be in theory but in reality there are. There are good Police and bad, Good priests and (after recent events have come out) bad, Good barmen and bad and probably good Malaysian sweatshop workers and bad Its not right but its human nature.
But to label honest Policemen as rare is quite frankly bollocks, yeah i might be going against the macho hooligan flow of calling them 'Old Bill' and pretending i hate them and walking with a limp (or whatever you youngsters do) but the facts are the good ones vastly outnumber the bad as with every walk of life
There is blame attached to all relevant parties and The Sun took advantage of a tragedy and public opinion on football fans to turn a profit.
I think any sane person know that there were failings by the police that day but it is the arrogance of the Liverpool supporters in claiming that they were blameless that irks many.
flash gunner wrote:Sorry lads but that is bollocks. There is good and bad in EVERY walk of life, there shouldnt be in theory but in reality there are. There are good Police and bad, Good priests and (after recent events have come out) bad, Good barmen and bad and probably good Malaysian sweatshop workers and bad Its not right but its human nature.
But to label honest Policemen as rare is quite frankly bollocks, yeah i might be going against the macho hooligan flow of calling them 'Old Bill' and pretending i hate them and walking with a limp (or whatever you youngsters do) but the facts are the good ones vastly outnumber the bad as with every walk of life
Not my experience at footy. I know a few personally and they are top lads, a good mate of mine and instructor is a Police Combat instructor. Nicest, most helpful bloke you could wish to meet.
But I find police at football want nothing more than to get people nicked, treat fans like complete animals, and couldn't really give a toss about innocent peaceful people getting their heads kicked in.
ArsenalSooner wrote:considering they havent won the league since before the incident it's not that surprising they're still going on about it all. success makes bad things go away. they just havent had enough of it. the scousers are all about the small victories edit: i don't in any way mean to disrepect those that died. it was a tragic event and is very difficult to watch the footage anytime i see it. im just going on about their ridiculous behavior this many years down the road.
They won the League in 1990, a year after Hillsborough
Flash I say as I see,based on my life experiences, the Police are institutionally corrupt and racist .
I have met individual coppers that are solid Guys but that amounts to 3 in thousands, but most I've ever met were complete cunz and those I've come across doing their job especially at football are cunz to a man!
They have a a job to protect and defend which they are very good at doing but not the public, just themselves.
The Hillsborough cover up is just another in a long line of OB perverting the course of Justice.
He says that the ones without tickets who tried to get in have to shoulder some responsibility.
Its not right but its human nature.
