As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
MK Gould wrote:Spot the connection between these random statements:
"Gazprom.....one of the lucrative new sponsorship deals that Chelsea have signed....."
".....Abramovich, sold his controlling stake in the oil company Sibneft to Gazprom for £8.4 billion in 2005"
"Gazprom.....official partner of the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Super Cup for the next three seasons"
The Guardian also refer to "Chelsea.....converted a further £166.6m of loans to equity, leaving its balance sheet debt free. That does not have a bearing on FFP calculations but provides a degree of reassurance that he won't leave the club burdened with debt". This is interesting as it suggests that the Financial Fair Play rules are less concerned with Financially "cheating" and more concerned with safeguarding.... For me this is a key difference and one that truly does blow the Arsenal argument out of the water !!
Why is this even remotely surprising - Abramovich has been converting the debt to equity at the end of each financial year as a matter of course. There is no debt, and its been like that for ages and its the main reason why I've been saying ever since this stupid notion of regulation that it can not work. If Usmanov bought us it would work similarly. In fact he'd probably pay off the high interest rate debt and then convert any cash he injected to equity like Abramovich - so we'd be less indebted than now
Still - let Kroenke and Gazidis carry on kidding everyone their model works best. It doesn't and never has and Arsenal will realise what has been apparent to anyone with half a financial brain for years - this whole FFP thing is the biggest load of nonsense going. I guess what it does is offer 'hope value' to fans that are brainwashed into thinking in 2 years we will genuinely compete. In reality we'll be even further away
I'm not wedded to Wenger and I'm not blind to the failings of the board. But I see what has happened to Leeds, Rangers....and possibly Hearts....and desperately want to believe that what the club have done - painful as it has been - is the right way to go. Like many, I've benefited from the move to the Grove as without it I would struggle to get into home games. It's come as a cost of course, but our prudent financial management will make it all worthwhile in the end..... That isn't being an AKB.
But then you see the like of Chelsea and Citeh getting away with these flagrant abuses. And they are probably just typical of what Barca, Madrid and Milan will be doing as well.
It makes me feel that the austerity of the last 6 years has been for nothing..... The only difference between my view and others on here is that I think any anger should, in the first instance, be directed at the Board rather than Wenger. In truth, I'm beginning to feel like a bit of a mug - not for continuing to go to games, as I do believe you are less of a fan if your involvement with the club is limited to posting on a forum - for believing in this flawed dream!
MK Gould wrote:Spot the connection between these random statements:
"Gazprom.....one of the lucrative new sponsorship deals that Chelsea have signed....."
".....Abramovich, sold his controlling stake in the oil company Sibneft to Gazprom for £8.4 billion in 2005"
"Gazprom.....official partner of the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Super Cup for the next three seasons"
The Guardian also refer to "Chelsea.....converted a further £166.6m of loans to equity, leaving its balance sheet debt free. That does not have a bearing on FFP calculations but provides a degree of reassurance that he won't leave the club burdened with debt". This is interesting as it suggests that the Financial Fair Play rules are less concerned with Financially "cheating" and more concerned with safeguarding.... For me this is a key difference and one that truly does blow the Arsenal argument out of the water !!
Why is this even remotely surprising - Abramovich has been converting the debt to equity at the end of each financial year as a matter of course. There is no debt, and its been like that for ages and its the main reason why I've been saying ever since this stupid notion of regulation that it can not work. If Usmanov bought us it would work similarly. In fact he'd probably pay off the high interest rate debt and then convert any cash he injected to equity like Abramovich - so we'd be less indebted than now
Still - let Kroenke and Gazidis carry on kidding everyone their model works best. It doesn't and never has and Arsenal will realise what has been apparent to anyone with half a financial brain for years - this whole FFP thing is the biggest load of nonsense going. I guess what it does is offer 'hope value' to fans that are brainwashed into thinking in 2 years we will genuinely compete. In reality we'll be even further away
I'm not wedded to Wenger and I'm not blind to the failings of the board. But I see what has happened to Leeds, Rangers....and possibly Hearts....and desperately want to believe that what the club have done - painful as it has been - is the right way to go. Like many, I've benefited from the move to the Grove as without it I would struggle to get into home games. It's come as a cost of course, but our prudent financial management will make it all worthwhile in the end..... That isn't being an AKB.
But then you see the like of Chelsea and Citeh getting away with these flagrant abuses. And they are probably just typical of what Barca, Madrid and Milan will be doing as well.
It makes me feel that the austerity of the last 6 years has been for nothing..... The only difference between my view and others on here is that I think any anger should, in the first instance, be directed at the Board rather than Wenger.
But mate there is a HUGE difference between racking up bank debts and having genuine creditors breathing down your neck (Portsmouth, Leeds, Rangers) and having a billionaire writing cheques which to him are like a pimple on an elephant's arse and coverting it to equity because he's so rich he doesn't need repaying
People need to stand back and understand that the way debts accumulated, and to who those amounts were owed, at Portsmouth and Leeds, are completely different to how its been done with Abramovich at Chelsea.
At the end of the day we know it's going to be bollocks and not make a huge difference as to how things go, and certainly isn't going to make us Invincible again.
FFP, even if UEFA had any bollocks to enforce it, doesn't work as most people would understand. It pits ALL revenue against FOOTBALLING expenditure. If you looked at a big club's balance sheet you would see significant negative figures on the balance sheets from interest payments, player amortisation and a strong possibility of significant capital outlay on youth or training facilities. Under the FFP none of these are calculable, so it's possible for a club to make an actual loss of £30m+ (when you consider how much United pay in interest payments per annum far more) while complying with FFP.
It annoys me that this debate crops up on a regular basis because it's been obvious for years that it's a complete sham.
northbank123 wrote:At the end of the day we know it's going to be bollocks and not make a huge difference as to how things go, and certainly isn't going to make us Invincible again.
FFP, even if UEFA had any bollocks to enforce it, doesn't work as most people would understand. It pits ALL revenue against FOOTBALLING expenditure. If you looked at a big club's balance sheet you would see significant negative figures on the balance sheets from interest payments, player amortisation and a strong possibility of significant capital outlay on youth or training facilities. Under the FFP none of these are calculable, so it's possible for a club to make an actual loss of £30m+ (when you consider how much United pay in interest payments per annum far more) while complying with FFP.
It annoys me that this debate crops up on a regular basis because it's been obvious for years that it's a complete sham.
But, but, but.......with that statement you have just scuppered one of the AKB's and Wengers main excuses for him being a total failure for the last 6 years.
northbank123 wrote:At the end of the day we know it's going to be bollocks and not make a huge difference as to how things go, and certainly isn't going to make us Invincible again.
FFP, even if UEFA had any bollocks to enforce it, doesn't work as most people would understand. It pits ALL revenue against FOOTBALLING expenditure. If you looked at a big club's balance sheet you would see significant negative figures on the balance sheets from interest payments, player amortisation and a strong possibility of significant capital outlay on youth or training facilities. Under the FFP none of these are calculable, so it's possible for a club to make an actual loss of £30m+ (when you consider how much United pay in interest payments per annum far more) while complying with FFP.
It annoys me that this debate crops up on a regular basis because it's been obvious for years that it's a complete sham.
But, but, but.......with that statement you have just scuppered one of the AKB's and Wengers main excuses for him being a total failure for the last 6 years.
Poor AKB's
One little comment from Uncle Ivan will pacify them, together with that contract extension which must be getting drawn up ready for next Summer
MK Gould wrote:Spot the connection between these random statements:
"Gazprom.....one of the lucrative new sponsorship deals that Chelsea have signed....."
".....Abramovich, sold his controlling stake in the oil company Sibneft to Gazprom for £8.4 billion in 2005"
"Gazprom.....official partner of the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Super Cup for the next three seasons"
The Guardian also refer to "Chelsea.....converted a further £166.6m of loans to equity, leaving its balance sheet debt free. That does not have a bearing on FFP calculations but provides a degree of reassurance that he won't leave the club burdened with debt". This is interesting as it suggests that the Financial Fair Play rules are less concerned with Financially "cheating" and more concerned with safeguarding.... For me this is a key difference and one that truly does blow the Arsenal argument out of the water !!
Why is this even remotely surprising - Abramovich has been converting the debt to equity at the end of each financial year as a matter of course. There is no debt, and its been like that for ages and its the main reason why I've been saying ever since this stupid notion of regulation that it can not work. If Usmanov bought us it would work similarly. In fact he'd probably pay off the high interest rate debt and then convert any cash he injected to equity like Abramovich - so we'd be less indebted than now
Still - let Kroenke and Gazidis carry on kidding everyone their model works best. It doesn't and never has and Arsenal will realise what has been apparent to anyone with half a financial brain for years - this whole FFP thing is the biggest load of nonsense going. I guess what it does is offer 'hope value' to fans that are brainwashed into thinking in 2 years we will genuinely compete. In reality we'll be even further away
I'm not wedded to Wenger and I'm not blind to the failings of the board. But I see what has happened to Leeds, Rangers....and possibly Hearts....and desperately want to believe that what the club have done - painful as it has been - is the right way to go. Like many, I've benefited from the move to the Grove as without it I would struggle to get into home games. It's come as a cost of course, but our prudent financial management will make it all worthwhile in the end..... That isn't being an AKB.
But then you see the like of Chelsea and Citeh getting away with these flagrant abuses. And they are probably just typical of what Barca, Madrid and Milan will be doing as well.
It makes me feel that the austerity of the last 6 years has been for nothing..... The only difference between my view and others on here is that I think any anger should, in the first instance, be directed at the Board rather than Wenger. In truth, I'm beginning to feel like a bit of a mug - not for continuing to go to games, as I do believe you are less of a fan if your involvement with the club is limited to posting on a forum - for believing in this flawed dream!
All well and good MK but Leeds, Portsmouth and Rangers all spent money that they didn't have and couldn't repay / get back through profit - we don't even want to spend the money we make, instead delight in hoarding it for a rainy day, when it is pissing down most weeks of the season