As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
DB10GOONER wrote:Thought Chesney was very poor for the scum's first goal and not exactly brilliant for the second either... If only his ability matched his self belief...
Not sure why people are blaming Chesney for the goals. He done well to stop Defoe's initial shot down to his left so I'm not sure what else people think he could have done for the first goal. Indeed, apart from the defending from the ball to Defoe (which in fairness was as much good forward play as bad marking in my opinion), where was the covering defenders to mop up /prevent Adebayor getting to the follow up first?
As for the second goal: Pers clears it away carelessly once it is obvious he is struggling to catch up with Bale, Kos was slow to close him down as he approached the edge of the box. Nothing Chesney could do about the shot itself.
Would agree, however, that time-wasting with more than 10 minutes to go when you're 4-2 up and playing against 10 men was fecking embarrassing to watch.
DB10GOONER wrote:Thought Chesney was very poor for the scum's first goal and not exactly brilliant for the second either... If only his ability matched his self belief...
Not sure why people are blaming Chesney for the goals. He done well to stop Defoe's initial shot down to his left so I'm not sure what else people think he could have done for the first goal. Indeed, apart from the defending from the ball to Defoe (which in fairness was as much good forward play as bad marking in my opinion), where was the covering defenders to mop up /prevent Adebayor getting to the follow up first?
As for the second goal: Pers clears it away carelessly once it is obvious he is struggling to catch up with Bale, Kos was slow to close him down as he approached the edge of the box. Nothing Chesney could do about the shot itself.
Would agree, however, that time-wasting with more than 10 minutes to go when you're 4-2 up and playing against 10 men was fecking embarrassing to watch.
Not "blaming" him as such - there were other defence-related failings in the build up to both goals. Thought his positioning on the first was bad, and his movement too, he started to come then back tracked slightly, leaving the far post open. Defoe's shot wasn't that great and all Chesney did was push it into Cuntawhore's path. Thought he was poor for that one tbh.
2nd one his positioning and anticipation were a bit suspect. A known left-footer like "The Welsh Messi" {(c) 'Arry Redkunt} goes across goal onto his right foot? Only one place he is going to place the shot - back across the keeper into the keeper's right - that's basic stuff keepers practice in training every day.
As I say not entirely his fault as both situations should have been dealt with earlier, but he didn't do well when the play developed to the stage where he was called upon.
DB10GOONER wrote:
2nd one his positioning and anticipation were a bit suspect. A known left-footer like "The Welsh Messi" {(c) 'Arry Redkunt} goes across goal onto his right foot? Only one place he is going to place the shot - back across the keeper into the keeper's right - that's basic stuff keepers practice in training every day.
Don't know about that mate..
RVP for Holland...going across goal from the left hits it with his right and goes keepers left...
Think you're being harsh on the 2nd DB10, people assume that a shot from outside the box has to be a screamer or a keeper mistake, Bale hit the shot very well and although it was a way out it came through Koscielny's legs which makes it more difficult, believe me. He genuinely had no time to move his feet before diving because of the power of the shot and it was right in the corner so I don't think any blame can be attached to him for that.
The first goal he should have done better though. The problem was he got drawn into coming out for the ball and had to backpedal once he realised he wasn't getting there. Therefore his bodyweight and momentum was going backwards and he couldn't get any spring to get a full dive or push the ball away properly, although it was still piss-poor to kill the ball dead there. Plus, if he'd have got up as quickly as after the second went in he would have smothered the rebound.
You can perhaps try and put it down to lack of match practice or whatever but for me it's a deep worry because Chesney has a worrying habit to start coming for balls he should be leaving well alone. There were a couple of times last season where he came waltzing out of his area and got nowhere near getting to the ball first, and also when he started coming for a ball and then had to stop and was left in no man's land and at a poor angle, noticeably Graham's winner for Swansea.
In this day and age where I'm sure every remote detail of a player's technical and physical performance is analysed in the greatest detail, it amazes me that we obviously don't believe in sitting players down on a Monday morning and showing them footage of their mistakes and what they need to work on. Or in fact acknowledge any defensive mistakes.
Szczesny has the potential to be a very good goalkeeper but atm I'm not convinced he'll fulfil that potential at Arsenal because we don't seem keen on working on weaknesses with players, and due to the lack of competition and discipline in the squad he struts around thinking he's on a par with Zoff, Yashin and Banks. As I would if I was chalked up against the likes of Vito and Flappy.
northbank123 wrote:In this day and age where I'm sure every remote detail of a player's technical and physical performance is analysed in the greatest detail, it amazes me that we obviously don't believe in sitting players down on a Monday morning and showing them footage of their mistakes and what they need to work on. Or in fact acknowledge any defensive mistakes.
Szczesny has the potential to be a very good goalkeeper but atm I'm not convinced he'll fulfil that potential at Arsenal because we don't seem keen on working on weaknesses with players, and due to the lack of competition and discipline in the squad he struts around thinking he's on a par with Zoff, Yashin and Banks. As I would if I was chalked up against the likes of Vito and Flappy.
Agree with all of that. It truly boggles the mind that a workaholic allegedly so consumed by football and details can watch the same basic mistakes reoccur on a loop and seemingly not take the relatively simple steps to rectify them. Per being suckered out towards the ball & leaving the gap in behind for Defoe was another one. Very similar to what he did in the build up to Huntelaar's goal in Germany the other week.
The other thing about Szczesny is his constant fucking about from passbacks. If you were an opposition scout looking for weaknesses ahead of a game against us you'd be telling your boss to have the forwards all over him & the nearest defender like a rash on a Geordie fanny whenever the ball's played back to him. Sooner or later he's gonna get caught out trying to be too smart with the ball at his feet.
northbank123 wrote:In this day and age where I'm sure every remote detail of a player's technical and physical performance is analysed in the greatest detail, it amazes me that we obviously don't believe in sitting players down on a Monday morning and showing them footage of their mistakes and what they need to work on. Or in fact acknowledge any defensive mistakes.
Szczesny has the potential to be a very good goalkeeper but atm I'm not convinced he'll fulfil that potential at Arsenal because we don't seem keen on working on weaknesses with players, and due to the lack of competition and discipline in the squad he struts around thinking he's on a par with Zoff, Yashin and Banks. As I would if I was chalked up against the likes of Vito and Flappy.
Agree with all of that. It truly boggles the mind that a workaholic allegedly so consumed by football and details can watch the same basic mistakes reoccur on a loop and seemingly not take the relatively simple steps to rectify them. Per being suckered out towards the ball & leaving the gap in behind for Defoe was another one. Very similar to what he did in the build up to Huntelaar's goal in Germany the other week.
The other thing about Szczesny is his constant fucking about from passbacks. If you were an opposition scout looking for weaknesses ahead of a game against us you'd be telling your boss to have the forwards all over him & the nearest defender like a rash on a Geordie fanny whenever the ball's played back to him. Sooner or later he's gonna get caught out trying to be too smart with the ball at his feet.
Makes me nervous every time he gets the ball at his feet. He needs somebody to come into training and give him a clip round the ear and tell him to stop fucking round or he'll be loaned out to the Polish supermarket just outside the ground.
Mertesacker's was a dreadful error but I can see why he made it: there was no midfield screening at all preventing the strikers from dropping deep, getting the ball to feet and running at our centre-backs 2 on 2. Woeful error of judgement in the circumstances but hints at our deep-rooted defensive shambles.
Its Up 4 Grabs Now wrote:not take the relatively simple steps to rectify them. Per being suckered out towards the ball & leaving the gap in behind for Defoe was another one. Very similar to what he did in the build up to Huntelaar's goal in Germany the other week.
think it's pretty complex tbh - he's taking his position off the midfielders, they've not covered the hole
probably because of a defender moving forward untracked, a lack of pressure on the ball or some such other general defensive ineptness. It's not as easy as saying don't get drawn out - sometimes, if teammates let you down, there's no choice
Its Up 4 Grabs Now wrote:not take the relatively simple steps to rectify them. Per being suckered out towards the ball & leaving the gap in behind for Defoe was another one. Very similar to what he did in the build up to Huntelaar's goal in Germany the other week.
think it's pretty complex tbh - he's taking his position off the midfielders, they've not covered the hole
probably because of a defender moving forward untracked, a lack of pressure on the ball or some such other general defensive ineptness. It's not as easy as saying don't get drawn out - sometimes, if teammates let you down, there's no choice
I agree nothing's ever totally black & white but it was far away enough from goal that I don't think he had to abandon his position (& his man) to address a more immediate threat & he left a huge gap in behind. He didn't even get that close to the ball before that gap was exploited with a simple ball forward. As NB123 said, I can see what he was maybe thinking at the time (as opposed to whatever Vermaelen was doing watching Barndoor amble in front of him for the rebound ), but ultimately it was the wrong choice and a big mistake. A forgivable one (the first time at least) but a mistake none the less. Overriding point was that seeing as the same thing happened at Schalke you'd like to think the coaching staff would have had a look at what went wrong & addressed when it's better to hold your position and when you need to go a bit more balls to the wall. It's the lessons not being learned bit that frustrates more so than any individual errors in isolation. Per's still a very accomplished defender imo and generally good at reading the danger but simple steps could make us so much better.
seen our goals loads - not really looked at theirs much TBH
and I've been perpetually pished or hanging since
I'm sure you're right, it's just often 'simple' probs are worryingly complicated
highburyJD wrote:seems the answer for everything on here
i wonder if Wenger's resignation would inspire peace in the middle-east?
(queue Flash posting - it's worth a try!)
Wenger cares very very very little about defending - that's why. Apparently he's not even allowing Bouldie to carry on doing what had been an excellent job on our defence.
DB10GOONER wrote:
2nd one his positioning and anticipation were a bit suspect. A known left-footer like "The Welsh Messi" {(c) 'Arry Redkunt} goes across goal onto his right foot? Only one place he is going to place the shot - back across the keeper into the keeper's right - that's basic stuff keepers practice in training every day.
Don't know about that mate..
RVP for Holland...going across goal from the left hits it with his right and goes keepers left...
I'd say that he shouldn't have been allowed to run and get the shot off, but don't think you can put that on him..
I stand by it. Giving 2 examples of players doing something diferrently doesn't disprove it, mate. It's often the exception that proves the rule. I totally agree the situation should have been dealt with before Bale got into a position to shoot, but a goalkeeper's positioning is a game of percentages. 9 times out of 10 a lefty will shoot back across goal if pushed onto his right foot, and a TOP TOP keeper (which Chesney ain't yet) would play the percentages and anticipate that. Chesney didn't anticipate, he waited for Bale, and was caught out.
I remember Schmeichel for the Filth, the guy was worth another 10 - 15 points a season on his own to them, because he could anticipate things like that and often made saves that most of the other keepers in the PL couldn't. It's the difference between a good keeper (Chesney at the moment) and a top keeper (Peter Rednostrils/Jennings/Seamo/Shilton).
But as I say, I agree we can't blame him totally for it, as the defending was pretty poor before that, but I think both goals demonstrate that whilst he is a good keeper he isn't as good as he seems to think he is, and should be 2nd choice to a proven keeper. In a perfect world etc etc etc.
Indeed, apart from the defending from the ball to Defoe (which in fairness was as much good forward play as bad marking in my opinion), where was the covering defenders to mop up /prevent Adebayor getting to the follow up first? 
), but ultimately it was the wrong choice and a big mistake. A forgivable one (the first time at least) but a mistake none the less. Overriding point was that seeing as the same thing happened at Schalke you'd like to think the coaching staff would have had a look at what went wrong & addressed when it's better to hold your position and when you need to go a bit more balls to the wall. It's the lessons not being learned bit that frustrates more so than any individual errors in isolation. Per's still a very accomplished defender imo and generally good at reading the danger but simple steps could make us so much better.
