What is wrong with our defence?

[SteveO 35]

What's wrong with our defence is quite simple - we don't have defenders who see their primary responsibility as being the dirty side of defending. For years now we've missed the presence of an imposing centre half to play against the likes of Carroll, Crouch, Davies, Zamora etc and stood back in amazement as Wenger 'technicians' like Djourou, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Toure, TV5 and countless others get outmuscled and bounced around like little kids.

Blame the coaches, blame the marking system, blame whatever you like, but in certain circumstances (not 'special' ones) you need a defender like a Vidic, Adams, Keown type, who are not afraid to lay down a marker on a centre forward and win the physical battle first. Everyone hates Stoke but in the first half of that game yesterday I watched Shawcross and whichever other 'loveable rogue' was nearest double up on Carroll and give him the sort of shit he hands out to other players on a weekly basis.

I'm not saying I want us to start playing like Stoke but what I am saying is that on a dozen or so occasions a season there is a need for a Chris Samba type player to 'do a job'. That sort of player won't stop Lionel Messi but he certainly won't be roughed up and bounced around like Koscielny was by Jason Roberts a few weeks ago. We don't have a single defender capable of doing that job. We didn't mind when Bouldy, Adams and Keown did it 'back in the day', but now we frown upon defenders like that despite the success it once brought us

[northbank123]

Still think you're being incredibly harsh for the second DB10, fair enough anticipating if the bloke is 10 yards out and you wouldn't have much chance if you didn't pre-empt but he was running across goal on his weaker foot 20 yards out. If he sticks it through the defender's legs who's blocking your view and it bullets into the bottom corner then you just have to hold your hands up.

Mind you I've seen Spurs fans criticising Lloris' reactions and for being too far off his line for Giroud's goal. Yes, the one where he swept in firmly from 6 or 7 yards.

[supergeorgegraham]

Its looks miles better with Gibbs playing and Vermaelen has under performed this year but I am certain he will improve again. Sagna might be off and although I was really pleased with Jenks he is not as good as Sagna. Shame its getting better but never gets there.
Also our goalkeepers still are not at the level we require but it is a tough position to fill.

[clockendal]

that's basic stuff keepers practice in training every day.

I stand by it. Giving 2 examples of players doing something diferrently doesn't disprove it, mate. It's often the exception that proves the rule. I totally agree the situation should have been dealt with before Bale got into a position to shoot, but a goalkeeper's positioning is a game of percentages. 9 times out of 10 a lefty will shoot back across goal if pushed onto his right foot, and a TOP TOP keeper (which Chesney ain't yet) would play the percentages and anticipate that. Chesney didn't anticipate, he waited for Bale, and was caught out.

I remember Schmeichel for the Filth, the guy was worth another 10 - 15 points a season on his own to them, because he could anticipate things like that and often made saves that most of the other keepers in the PL couldn't. It's the difference between a good keeper (Chesney at the moment) and a top keeper (Peter Rednostrils/Jennings/Seamo/Shilton).

But as I say, I agree we can't blame him totally for it, as the defending was pretty poor before that, but I think both goals demonstrate that whilst he is a good keeper he isn't as good as he seems to think he is, and should be 2nd choice to a proven keeper. In a perfect world etc etc etc.

So initially it's basic stuff that keepers practice every day in training...and now it's something a TOP TOP keeper would play percentages on...right ok..

I could find numerous examples of it, it's just that the goal from our ex-captain was fresh in the mind...

Not saying in the slightest Chesney is anywhere near those keepers you mention. He's got a long way to go to get anywhere near that level..

In case you hadn't noticed, I have played a bit in goal before..(wait do I sound like Arsene "never worked a day in football".. )

[highburyJD]

seems the answer for everything on here
i wonder if Wenger's resignation would inspire peace in the middle-east?




(queue Flash posting - it's worth a try!)

Wenger cares very very very little about defending - that's why. Apparently he's not even allowing Bouldie to carry on doing what had been an excellent job on our defence.

As I've said before in 1999 (5 years after George Graham left) Wenger put together one of our best ever teams
statistically our ever defence, ManUre won everything by outscoring us
Wenger changed

[DB10GOONER]

that's basic stuff keepers practice in training every day.

I stand by it. Giving 2 examples of players doing something diferrently doesn't disprove it, mate. It's often the exception that proves the rule. I totally agree the situation should have been dealt with before Bale got into a position to shoot, but a goalkeeper's positioning is a game of percentages. 9 times out of 10 a lefty will shoot back across goal if pushed onto his right foot, and a TOP TOP keeper (which Chesney ain't yet) would play the percentages and anticipate that. Chesney didn't anticipate, he waited for Bale, and was caught out.

I remember Schmeichel for the Filth, the guy was worth another 10 - 15 points a season on his own to them, because he could anticipate things like that and often made saves that most of the other keepers in the PL couldn't. It's the difference between a good keeper (Chesney at the moment) and a top keeper (Peter Rednostrils/Jennings/Seamo/Shilton).

But as I say, I agree we can't blame him totally for it, as the defending was pretty poor before that, but I think both goals demonstrate that whilst he is a good keeper he isn't as good as he seems to think he is, and should be 2nd choice to a proven keeper. In a perfect world etc etc etc.

So initially it's basic stuff that keepers practice every day in training...and now it's something a TOP TOP keeper would play percentages on...right ok..

I could find numerous examples of it, it's just that the goal from our ex-captain was fresh in the mind...

Not saying in the slightest Chesney is anywhere near those keepers you mention. He's got a long way to go to get anywhere near that level..

In case you hadn't noticed, I have played a bit in goal before..(wait do I sound like Arsene "never worked a day in football".. )

Er... are you just not reading my post, Al...?

It is something keepers practice every day, but ONLY top keepers get it right on a regular basis. Thusly, I'm saying Chesney ain't top class (yet anyway). Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?

I seem to recall the time I witnessed you play, we conceded 5... True, I was still partially drunk and hungover, but I think that was the number...

[clockendal]

Er... are you just not reading my post, Al...?

It is something keepers practice every day, but ONLY top keepers get it right on a regular basis. Thusly, I'm saying Chesney ain't top class (yet anyway). Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?

I seem to recall the time I witnessed you play, we conceded 5... True, I was still partially drunk and hungover, but I think that was the number...

Don't take the piss, mate.

You are saying keepers practice it every day, but he's not top class because he doesn't get it right on a regular basis. Sounds a little like backtracking. It's basics but only top keepers do it on a regular basis...standards must be pretty bad if someone who can't get the basics right is in goal for Arsenal

Yeah, I played 6 years as a goalkeeper so I'd like to think I know a bit about what practice rountines they go through. The fact that you just don't like Chesney is clouding your judgement on this one.

And please, don't talk down to me like you are some sort of authroity on it, "you do know", leave it out, mate.

We did let in 5 you're right, I seem to remember however you were quite generous with your praise for my performance after, mate. So don't let that get in the way of using that as a sly little dig to back up your post, mate.

[Chippy]

[northbank123]

DB10 if his positioning was wrong where should he have been standing? Blaming Ches for that second goal is just wrong: Bale absolutely fizzed a shot from 20 yards through a defender's legs and right into the bottom corner. Apart from being right under the crossbar there's not much more Bale could have done with the shot. From 20 yards out if somebody hits a shot that well there'll always be somewhere they can put it where the keeper won't be able to get there because the ball's past you in less than a second.

Fair enough expecting a keeper to pre-empt a shot in a particular direction from 10 yards but not from 20 yards out. From there it has to be a top effort to beat you, and it was. If you gamble and he doesn't do what you're expecting or miscues it or it takes a deflection or he slips the ball in for somebody else then there's more chance overall of you getting beaten if you're already going one way.

It was poor defending but Ches doesn't need to shoulder any of the blame for that.

[DB10GOONER]

Er... are you just not reading my post, Al...?

It is something keepers practice every day, but ONLY top keepers get it right on a regular basis. Thusly, I'm saying Chesney ain't top class (yet anyway). Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?

I seem to recall the time I witnessed you play, we conceded 5... True, I was still partially drunk and hungover, but I think that was the number...

Don't take the piss, mate.

You are saying keepers practice it every day, but he's not top class because he doesn't get it right on a regular basis. Sounds like you're full of shit to be honest, mate.

Yeah, I played 6 years as a goalkeeper so I'd like to think I know a bit about what practice rountines they go through. The fact that you just don't like Chesney is clouding your judgement on this one.

And please, don't talk down to me like you are some sort of authroity on it, "you do know", leave it out, mate.

We did let in 5 you're right, I seem to remember however you were quite generous with your praise for my performance after, mate. So don't let that get in the way of using that as a sly little dig to back up your post, mate.

What the fuck is your problem? I'm "full of shit" because I don't agree with you? How am I talking down to you? You need to pull your neck in there, pal.

And I'm sorry but 6 years doesn't make you an expert. I've played football for 36 years and whilst I don't claim that makes me an expert I know what I've seen keepers train at, and being a striker for alot of those years I would often sit in on their training to provide shots. So I know what I've seen.

And I stand by the top class comment, if he did get the marginal ones right on a regular basis he would be top class. Because I don't think he is (yet), does not mean I don't like him. I'm just honest about my view of his ability.

The comment about the 5 goals was a joke. Thus the winky emoticon. I thought you did great to keep it to 5 tbh and said so at the time. Don't be so fucking precious.

Get a sense of humour.

[Chippy]

[clockendal]

Er... are you just not reading my post, Al...?

It is something keepers practice every day, but ONLY top keepers get it right on a regular basis. Thusly, I'm saying Chesney ain't top class (yet anyway). Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?

I seem to recall the time I witnessed you play, we conceded 5... True, I was still partially drunk and hungover, but I think that was the number...

Don't take the piss, mate.

You are saying keepers practice it every day, but he's not top class because he doesn't get it right on a regular basis. Sounds like you're full of shit to be honest, mate.

Yeah, I played 6 years as a goalkeeper so I'd like to think I know a bit about what practice rountines they go through. The fact that you just don't like Chesney is clouding your judgement on this one.

And please, don't talk down to me like you are some sort of authroity on it, "you do know", leave it out, mate.

We did let in 5 you're right, I seem to remember however you were quite generous with your praise for my performance after, mate. So don't let that get in the way of using that as a sly little dig to back up your post, mate.

What the fuck is your problem? I'm "full of shit" because I don't agree with you? How am I talking down to you? You need to pull your neck in there, pal.

And I'm sorry but 6 years doesn't make you an expert. I've played football for 36 years and whilst I don't claim that makes me an expert I know what I've seen keepers train at, and being a striker for alot of those years I would often sit in on their training to provide shots. So I know what I've seen.

And I stand by the top class comment, if he did get the marginal ones right on a regular basis he would be top class. Because I don't think he is (yet), does not mean I don't like him. I'm just honest about my view of his ability.

The comment about the 5 goals was a joke. Thus the winky emoticon. I thought you did great to keep it to 5 tbh and said so at the time. Don't be so fucking precious.

Get a sense of humour.

You were talking down to me with a comment like “Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?” It is a put down and no amount of saying it wasn’t will change that.

The full of shit comment was wrong, I accept that and shouldn’t have said it. Probably time of the month.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Football is all about opinions. Just yours is wrong on this issue

[DB10GOONER]

Er... are you just not reading my post, Al...?

It is something keepers practice every day, but ONLY top keepers get it right on a regular basis. Thusly, I'm saying Chesney ain't top class (yet anyway). Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?

I seem to recall the time I witnessed you play, we conceded 5... True, I was still partially drunk and hungover, but I think that was the number...

Don't take the piss, mate.

You are saying keepers practice it every day, but he's not top class because he doesn't get it right on a regular basis. Sounds like you're full of shit to be honest, mate.

Yeah, I played 6 years as a goalkeeper so I'd like to think I know a bit about what practice rountines they go through. The fact that you just don't like Chesney is clouding your judgement on this one.

And please, don't talk down to me like you are some sort of authroity on it, "you do know", leave it out, mate.

We did let in 5 you're right, I seem to remember however you were quite generous with your praise for my performance after, mate. So don't let that get in the way of using that as a sly little dig to back up your post, mate.

What the fuck is your problem? I'm "full of shit" because I don't agree with you? How am I talking down to you? You need to pull your neck in there, pal.

And I'm sorry but 6 years doesn't make you an expert. I've played football for 36 years and whilst I don't claim that makes me an expert I know what I've seen keepers train at, and being a striker for alot of those years I would often sit in on their training to provide shots. So I know what I've seen.

And I stand by the top class comment, if he did get the marginal ones right on a regular basis he would be top class. Because I don't think he is (yet), does not mean I don't like him. I'm just honest about my view of his ability.

The comment about the 5 goals was a joke. Thus the winky emoticon. I thought you did great to keep it to 5 tbh and said so at the time. Don't be so fucking precious.

Get a sense of humour.

You were talking down to me with a comment like “Seriously, you do know keepers (at all levels) practice stuff like that? Right?” It is a put down and no amount of saying it wasn’t will change that.

The full of shit comment was wrong, I accept that and shouldn’t have said it. Probably time of the month.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Football is all about opinions. Just yours is wrong on this issue

Wanker. You're banned.

[Chippy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zBmqIFpzhU

[clockendal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoy8ZrtDoY