As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
northbank123 wrote:
You really don't seem to understand my point. Consumers influence products, as they do in every industry/market, by buying patterns. The fans who have consistently bought tickets at rising prices at the Emirates are the reason that it's so expensive now. If Arsenal weren't selling 60,000 tickets every week, they wouldn't charge such high prices. Just like if Wigan packed their ground out every week, they would undoubtedly raise prices until people refused to pay the high prices.
Arsenal (and other clubs) charge as much as they can whilst filling the ground. They try and generate the most money by selling their product. How is that any different from any other product? Why does that need regulation - it's not like utilities where there's a risk of a price cartel and it's regressive because everybody needs to pay utilities. If people don't like the prices then don't go, it's like telling a theatre they can't charge £89 a ticket to sit in the best seats. Neither a theatre nor a football club are under any sort of obligation to make their tickets affordable.
The difference for me is that we are not "consumers" and the football we watch is not a "product". (Although I agree thats how we are viewed by Wenger, Gazidis and the board)
We cant just jump ship, stop going Arsenal and go watch Wigan because they are cheaper like the way we can change cereal brands cause one is better or cheaper.
Its way different from going to the theatre and doesn't deserve comparison. Football and Arsenal is part of us, part of who we are. Its how we itentify ourselves. Passed from father to son.
Thats how we are taken advantage of. We are a captive audience. Yes we are being priced out and over time it will probably end up with very few or no "true fans" left with the vested interest and emotional attachment that we have now.
Its supply and demand up to a point but IMO there is so much more to it than that.
northbank123 wrote:
You really don't seem to understand my point. Consumers influence products, as they do in every industry/market, by buying patterns. The fans who have consistently bought tickets at rising prices at the Emirates are the reason that it's so expensive now. If Arsenal weren't selling 60,000 tickets every week, they wouldn't charge such high prices. Just like if Wigan packed their ground out every week, they would undoubtedly raise prices until people refused to pay the high prices.
Arsenal (and other clubs) charge as much as they can whilst filling the ground. They try and generate the most money by selling their product. How is that any different from any other product? Why does that need regulation - it's not like utilities where there's a risk of a price cartel and it's regressive because everybody needs to pay utilities. If people don't like the prices then don't go, it's like telling a theatre they can't charge £89 a ticket to sit in the best seats. Neither a theatre nor a football club are under any sort of obligation to make their tickets affordable.
The difference for me is that we are not "consumers" and the football we watch is not a "product". (Although I agree thats how we are viewed by Wenger, Gazidis and the board)
We cant just jump ship, stop going Arsenal and go watch Wigan because they are cheaper like the way we can change cereal brands cause one is better or cheaper.
Its way different from going to the theatre and doesn't deserve comparison. Football and Arsenal is part of us, part of who we are. Its how we itentify ourselves. Passed from father to son.
Thats how we are taken advantage of. We are a captive audience. Yes we are being priced out and over time it will probably end up with very few or no "true fans" left with the vested interest and emotional attachment that we have now.
Its supply and demand up to a point but IMO there is so much more to it than that.
Mate I agree wholeheartedly that there is certainly a tribal element to supporting a football team, and also that the board's policy on tickets is a disgrace.
But that doesn't explain why should ticket prices be regulated? Arsenal don't owe a duty to anyone to make their tickets affordable, there's no solid basis for forcing them to make tickets reasonably priced for you and I. Yeah they're going to piss fans off and alienate their core support with the current approach, but that's their decision and they're the ones who will deal with the long-term fall-out. I disagree completely with pretty much everything that comes out of this current club, and the price of tickets is just about the worst, but completely disagree that it needs regulating.
Football is a business in the true sense. Even the supposedly great gestures make business sense. Cheap tickets for CC games is to try and fill the ground and to attract more youngsters to follow and watch the team. Refunding away tickets if you get hammered is done to get good press and persuade fans to continue following the team around the country.
Its the national sport so perhaps an argument could be made along those lines like the way certain events are legislated to be shown on terrestrial or freeview?
armchair supporter wrote:Its the national sport so perhaps an argument could be made along those lines like the way certain events are legislated to be shown on terrestrial or freeview?
There are 6 one-off annual games and 4 tournaments (3 of which happen once every 4 years) that have to be shown on terrestrial. Bit different to saying every league club has to have affordable tickets. Besides, how would you define what's reasonable or affordable? Because there are at least 60,000 people who, when push came to shove, thought that £62-£123 was worth paying to watch Sunday's match.
And TV airing is completely different. There are a finite number of seats in sports stadia, in theory any one match could be shown on 50 channels simultaneously but you can't get more than 60,000 into the Emirates. Besides, Sky etc are still allowed to have the rights for those matches, they just have to be shown on terrestrial too.
armchair supporter wrote:Its the national sport so perhaps an argument could be made along those lines like the way certain events are legislated to be shown on terrestrial or freeview?
There are 6 one-off annual games and 4 tournaments (3 of which happen once every 4 years) that have to be shown on terrestrial. Bit different to saying every league club has to have affordable tickets. Besides, how would you define what's reasonable or affordable? Because there are at least 60,000 people who, when push came to shove, thought that £62-£123 was worth paying to watch Sunday's match.
And TV airing is completely different. There are a finite number of seats in sports stadia, in theory any one match could be shown on 50 channels simultaneously but you can't get more than 60,000 into the Emirates. Besides, Sky etc are still allowed to have the rights for those matches, they just have to be shown on terrestrial too.
I'd suggest that very few who attended thought that £62 - £123 was worth it. Thinking its worth it and paying up are not the same. Thats where the loyalty comes in and the fans pay up. A "consumer" would not.
armchair supporter wrote:Its the national sport so perhaps an argument could be made along those lines like the way certain events are legislated to be shown on terrestrial or freeview?
There are 6 one-off annual games and 4 tournaments (3 of which happen once every 4 years) that have to be shown on terrestrial. Bit different to saying every league club has to have affordable tickets. Besides, how would you define what's reasonable or affordable? Because there are at least 60,000 people who, when push came to shove, thought that £62-£123 was worth paying to watch Sunday's match.
And TV airing is completely different. There are a finite number of seats in sports stadia, in theory any one match could be shown on 50 channels simultaneously but you can't get more than 60,000 into the Emirates. Besides, Sky etc are still allowed to have the rights for those matches, they just have to be shown on terrestrial too.
I'd suggest that very few who attended thought that £62 - £123 was worth it. Thinking its worth it and paying up are not the same. Thats where the loyalty comes in and the fans pay up. A "consumer" would not.
They still paid up though, that's the point. It doesn't really matter whether they objectively thought it was "worth it" if they still paid the money. If you pay £62, it's worth £62. It takes the sting out of the argument of people complaining about prices if they're still willing to pay them, and in any event tens of thousands of others are.
Nobody needs to go to a football match. If you don't think it's worth it, don't go. If people vote with their feet, that's how ticket prices will change. The current pricing is greedy, exploitative and disrespectful, but that's the cold light of day.
I should reiterate I completely think that ticket prices at some clubs, ours in particular, are a disgrace. But I just don't see why in the grand scheme of things clubs should be forced to offer cheaper tickets.
So many empty seats tonight in the lower tier, despite the lower tier offering the cheapest seats and being officially sold out.
Perhaps many were voting with their feet, but the fans are not doing themselves any favours complaining about ticket prices when this blase attitude exists amongst some.
hugh jardon wrote:So many empty seats tonight in the lower tier, despite the lower tier offering the cheapest seats and being officially sold out.
Perhaps many were voting with their feet, but the fans are not doing themselves any favours complaining about ticket prices when this blase attitude exists amongst some.
Wasn't sold out tonight as went on general sale, personally didn't go as was working and ST in lower tier...assume alot others were as well hence empty seats and no opportunity to sell on TX....
hugh jardon wrote:So many empty seats tonight in the lower tier, despite the lower tier offering the cheapest seats and being officially sold out.
Perhaps many were voting with their feet, but the fans are not doing themselves any favours complaining about ticket prices when this blase attitude exists amongst some.
hugh jardon wrote:So many empty seats tonight in the lower tier, despite the lower tier offering the cheapest seats and being officially sold out.
Perhaps many were voting with their feet, but the fans are not doing themselves any favours complaining about ticket prices when this blase attitude exists amongst some.
armchair supporter wrote:Its the national sport so perhaps an argument could be made along those lines like the way certain events are legislated to be shown on terrestrial or freeview?
There are 6 one-off annual games and 4 tournaments (3 of which happen once every 4 years) that have to be shown on terrestrial. Bit different to saying every league club has to have affordable tickets. Besides, how would you define what's reasonable or affordable? Because there are at least 60,000 people who, when push came to shove, thought that £62-£123 was worth paying to watch Sunday's match.
And TV airing is completely different. There are a finite number of seats in sports stadia, in theory any one match could be shown on 50 channels simultaneously but you can't get more than 60,000 into the Emirates. Besides, Sky etc are still allowed to have the rights for those matches, they just have to be shown on terrestrial too.
I'd suggest that very few who attended thought that £62 - £123 was worth it. Thinking its worth it and paying up are not the same. Thats where the loyalty comes in and the fans pay up. A "consumer" would not.
They still paid up though, that's the point. It doesn't really matter whether they objectively thought it was "worth it" if they still paid the money. If you pay £62, it's worth £62. It takes the sting out of the argument of people complaining about prices if they're still willing to pay them, and in any event tens of thousands of others are.
Nobody needs to go to a football match. If you don't think it's worth it, don't go. If people vote with their feet, that's how ticket prices will change. The current pricing is greedy, exploitative and disrespectful, but that's the cold light of day.
I should reiterate I completely think that ticket prices at some clubs, ours in particular, are a disgrace. But I just don't see why in the grand scheme of things clubs should be forced to offer cheaper tickets.
Sorry, but I think you miss the point about the nature of a football fan....
I have a mate who hasn't missed a Spuds game, home or away, since the late 1980's. I myself had many years when I went to every home game and 95% of the away and I've been to at least one home game every season since 1974/75. And I'm sure we all know people who haven't missed a home game for years.....
So there is no choice about it. For many people the decision to go to the Citeh game, or buy a season ticket, is already made and isn't financial - albeit that they then suffer the consequences. People might not go because they can't afford it or think prices are too high....but that doesn't mean that those who do go are happy!
Wasn't it also one of the key points raised in the Taylor Report that when we went over to all seater stadiums it shouldn't price the existing fans out of the game....
PS I think 50,000 - if that's what it was - was a great crowd for a 3rd round replay against a small team. Don't know why the club aren't proud of that fact and continue to publish the tickets sold and get ridiculed for it. Doubt we've had an attendance under 40,000 at the Grove in any competition since we moved and that is some boast!
hugh jardon wrote:So many empty seats tonight in the lower tier, despite the lower tier offering the cheapest seats and being officially sold out.
Perhaps many were voting with their feet, but the fans are not doing themselves any favours complaining about ticket prices when this blase attitude exists amongst some.
Think ESPN said it was 'officially' 58,000 but was more like a little over 50,000.
They couldn't stop banging on about it. It was like empty seats on a Wednesday night in January were a sight to behold.
When they weren't blabbering on about his fucking coat! John "everything mildly offends me" Champion and Craig "bitter bit-part footballer" Burley must be the worst comentary combo on TV.
armchair supporter wrote:Its the national sport so perhaps an argument could be made along those lines like the way certain events are legislated to be shown on terrestrial or freeview?
There are 6 one-off annual games and 4 tournaments (3 of which happen once every 4 years) that have to be shown on terrestrial. Bit different to saying every league club has to have affordable tickets. Besides, how would you define what's reasonable or affordable? Because there are at least 60,000 people who, when push came to shove, thought that £62-£123 was worth paying to watch Sunday's match.
And TV airing is completely different. There are a finite number of seats in sports stadia, in theory any one match could be shown on 50 channels simultaneously but you can't get more than 60,000 into the Emirates. Besides, Sky etc are still allowed to have the rights for those matches, they just have to be shown on terrestrial too.
I'd suggest that very few who attended thought that £62 - £123 was worth it. Thinking its worth it and paying up are not the same. Thats where the loyalty comes in and the fans pay up. A "consumer" would not.
They still paid up though, that's the point. It doesn't really matter whether they objectively thought it was "worth it" if they still paid the money. If you pay £62, it's worth £62. It takes the sting out of the argument of people complaining about prices if they're still willing to pay them, and in any event tens of thousands of others are.
Nobody needs to go to a football match. If you don't think it's worth it, don't go. If people vote with their feet, that's how ticket prices will change. The current pricing is greedy, exploitative and disrespectful, but that's the cold light of day.
I should reiterate I completely think that ticket prices at some clubs, ours in particular, are a disgrace. But I just don't see why in the grand scheme of things clubs should be forced to offer cheaper tickets.
Sorry, but I think you miss the point about the nature of a football fan....
I have a mate who hasn't missed a Spuds game, home or away, since the late 1980's. I myself had many years when I went to every home game and 95% of the away and I've been to at least one home game every season since 1974/75. And I'm sure we all know people who haven't missed a home game for years.....
So there is no choice about it. For many people the decision to go to the Citeh game, or buy a season ticket, is already made and isn't financial - albeit that they then suffer the consequences. People might not go because they can't afford it or think prices are too high....but that doesn't mean that those who do go are happy!
Wasn't it also one of the key points raised in the Taylor Report that when we went over to all seater stadiums it shouldn't price the existing fans out of the game....
PS I think 50,000 - if that's what it was - was a great crowd for a 3rd round replay against a small team. Don't know why the club aren't proud of that fact and continue to publish the tickets sold and get ridiculed for it. Doubt we've had an attendance under 40,000 at the Grove in any competition since we moved and that is some boast!
Believe me, I don't. I know that people will pay more than they deep down know it's worth because of their affiliation with a club, and I have personally spunked away too much of my money as a student going to watch the team.
I personally know so many people who have stopped going to Arsenal games because the price of the tickets, especially in comparison to the football on offer, is completely unjustifiable. I wholeheartedly agree that tickets should be cheaper, the club has turned its back on loyal fans in favour of those with bigger wallets. I just don't think objectively that anybody should be given the legal power to force the club to do so. As a profit-making entity not offering a public service it's their right to do so, and they're the ones who'll feel the consequences further down the road.
So to take my family of four to the Brighton game would cost £77. No bumping up the prices because its Arsenal. Thats fantastic value for money to watch a team just outside the top flight against (I think) one of the biggest clubs in the country.
Fair play to Brighton - could have milked fans for more knowing it would sell out.
John "everything mildly offends me" Champion and Craig "bitter bit-part footballer" Burley must be the worst comentary combo on TV. 
