Virtual Trophy or Actual Trophy?

[QuartzGooner]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

[donaldo]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

QG

What you mean if we dont qualify for the CL we wont be able to sign Squillaci Santos Chamakh Park Ramsey Giround and Gervinho

How the fuck did Liverpool sign Suarez when they werent in the CL

[augie]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

Are you on the razz tonight quartz ? I mean seriously what recent purchases came to us purely for champs league ? A more relevant question is whether it would have hurt us if they hadn't of joined ? As for some of our senior players looking to leave that is a laff - outside of wilshire there is not one of the rest of those overpaid tossers that I would give a fcuk if they left

Re the revenue declining then I have one word to say......good The only way we are going to rid our club of the yank leech and his smarmy greasy puppet is to see revenue falling resulting in a drop in his shareholding value

[mcdowell42]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

Seriously Quartz What players are you talking about and besides from wilshere tht ship has sailed as regarding players wanting to leave

[N1Goon]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

Yeah, only because we never win any of them! If we had beat Birmingham i'd have been thrilled! I think 10/11 would have panned out differently.

[N1Goon]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

Yeah, only because we never win any of them! If we'd beaten Birmingham i'd have been thrilled! I think 10/11 would have panned out differently.

[northbank123]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

Yeah, only because we never win any of them! If we'd beaten Birmingham i'd have been thrilled! I think 10/11 would have panned out differently.

From somebody that spouts hatred all day about how Wenger is inept and has been for years, what difference would that League Cup have made?

It wouldn't have made us beat the best team on the planet in the CL, it wouldn't have made us turn over United away in the FA Cup and it wouldn't have stopped our league season from imploding as it has done year on year due to our fragility and lack of strength in depth and defensive organisation. It's just a lazy line thrown about by journalists.

[mcdowell42]

there is no point whatsoever in getting 4th place

contrary to what the club say the money from the Champions League is never reinvested in the team. we have no hope of winning the trophy with the squad that we have got so what is the point? a pointless 8 matches each season which just wears out the limited squad that we now have.

I just hope that we miss out on the Europa League as well though.


Red Member posted the above on the afc forum,and i actually agree with it,am i going mad

[SteveO 35]

4th place beats either Domestic Cup every year for me.

Outside the Champions League means it is harder to attract players to sign.
Some of our senior players might leave.
Revenue declines.
And another club gets money that we would have had.

Most of the magic of the cups has disappeared as far as I am concerned.
A trip to Wembley is not that special, and the tickets are expensive.
I am in favour of sprucing up the FA Cup, perhaps the winner gets to compete it eh Champions League qualification rounds?

Quartz you surprise me on many levels here mate. First of all, I had you down for a bit of an 'old skool' type that would never get bored with the glory of a day at Wembley seeing your team win a cup. As for the tickets being expensive.....remind me what the cheapest ticket was for the Champions League final last year?

If our 'senior players' leave then so be it.......the really good ones have been leaving regularly. As far as I'm concerned the ones that are here are responsible for the mediocre league position we're in anyway. If all they are interested in is playing in a competition we can't win anyway then I'd question their motivation. If they are top drawer like RvP and Fabregas then WINNING the CL is what they want...not the glory of a 2nd placed group stage finish followed by meek surrender in Barcelona/Milan/Manchester (delete as appropriate)

Revenue decline? That affects Kroenke - he owns 67% of the share capital. Not you, not me. Wenger built a title winning side in 1998 that didn't need CL income. Spurs and Everton are above us with considerably less wage spend and without the riches of the CL.

The Champions League is becoming the 'be all and end all' for modern fans. I'm surprised you rate it so highly knowing that 99% of the time you talk a lot of sense.

[QuartzGooner]

Quite a few questions on my post, to try and answer Augie, McDowell, N1, SteveO, Donaldo and Northbank123.


Importance of Champions League

I honestly think that if we were outside the Champions League, it would have a detrimental effect on us attracting players.
Hard to prove, because we have been in the competition virtually every season that Wenger has managed us.

Sure clubs outside it have one or two top players, there is always someone who wants cash and will sign for the cash...Suarez being a good example.

But who can tell me that the top four or so clubs do not have the most expensive squads without reason?
It is because they attract the top players who want Champions League football.

Arteta is an example...he left Everton and took a pay cut because he wanted to test himself at the highest level of club football.

One season outside the Champions League can be coped with, but
I reckon two consecutive seasons outside the Champions League and we will see Wilshere, Cazorla, Walcott and Szczesny all leave.

Wenger will not be manager for ever, Kroenke will not be owner for ever, and we need the club in as good as shape as possible when their successors arrive.


Decline of domestic cups

I do not feel that the domestic clubs are worthless, I want us to try and win them, but I do think they have lost a lot of their appeal.
My experience is very much coloured by the 1993 season.
We were the first club to win both domestic cups in one season.

Coming out of the FA Cup replay, the crowd was not overly happy or loud.
I cannot speak for the crowd, but I felt that we had won a sort of pyrrhic victory.
That no matter two pieces of silverware, we were a long way off being able to challenge for the league title.
That the real action was going on in Manchester and Blackburn.

Absence from the Champions League group stages sets off a very nasty downward cycle, or decreased revenue, loss of prestige and a hard task to get back to the top group of clubs.

The money earned is currently going to the club's bank account, I have been one of those who has pointed this out many times.
But if you think things are bad now, see how they are when the club is in the Europa League!

Declining ticket sales will worsen, and I think Kroenke would rather sell off players than dip into cash reserves, to meet the stadium debt repayments.

I think the landscape of modern football dictates that Champions League group stage qualification is a near neccesity.

Or do people want to be like Spurs, Liverpool, Everton?

We occupy a unique position in English football.
A "group" of our own, non-title challengers, but with a new stadium built as opposed to being in the planning stages.
We are not in the monied three of Man Utd, Man City, and Chelsea, but neither are we in the Thursday night club of Liverpool, Spurs and Everton.

As for me being "old school" I have been going to games since the late 70's, but no longer feel that Wembley offers much magic.
It is a soulless bowl in every sense, much more than our stadium is, a corporate concourse akin to a National Rail station, with blue bibbed security who patrol up and down pitchside making sure there is no pitch invasion or fan trouble during a game, blocking the fans' view.

The stadium was done on the cheap but cost a fortune, it is already in poor repair and the transport links were skimped on, the proposed Wembley Park bus station and Chiltern Line platforms cancelled as being too costly. So it still takes a while to get home but the FA rakes in the cash from the stadium.

Thousands of seats are filled by real corporate neutrals, denying true fans a chance to see their teams in the flesh at a final.
90,000 capacity yet each of the two competing clubs gets an allocation of about 25,000 tickets!

I feel disconnected from the stadium and the domestic cups, no longer do we get a special day build up to the tournaments; instead they are fitted in gaps of Sky's League schedule, we have even had League games played at the same time as the Cup Finals!

[hugh jardon]

FA Cup. Would give the players confidence and help forge a winning mentality.

And shut other club's fans up.

[littlefire]

Daddy?









Or CHIPS?

[Supagoon]

actual trophy.

If we actually had a plan of becoming competitive again a virtual trophy would be better as players would come for CL footie. But good players don't stay for CL footie and imaginary trophies as we have found out.

Getting knocked out of the CL every year is played out man.

[Barriecuda]

The problem for me is that either 4th or an FA Cup would mask the fact that this team isn't good enough. Either provide a convenient excuse for the board to support the manager, and the manager to continue to say "this team is special, this team is great, this team is world class" - all ridiculous statements.

If I were to pick either, I'd pick 4th place. At least the CL keeps the faint hope alive of attracting top players.

The league is what I want to see Arsenal competing for, not the trophies that used to just be a bonus.

[northbank123]

The problem for me is that either 4th or an FA Cup would mask the fact that this team isn't good enough. Either provide a convenient excuse for the board to support the manager, and the manager to continue to say "this team is special, this team is great, this team is world class" - all ridiculous statements.

If I were to pick either, I'd pick 4th place. At least the CL keeps the faint hope alive of attracting top players.

The league is what I want to see Arsenal competing for, not the trophies that used to just be a bonus.

Not sure that an FA Cup would mask it. Would definitely reinforce Wenger's infallibility to many of his limitless disciples, but then again those people will never change their views. Nobody was fooled by Liverpool winning one domestic cup and being runners-up in another last year. Even the fans acknowledged that their beloved manager wasn't taking them forward.

4th would, however, continue the trend.