Match DVDS

[Swifty]

but seriously- how were we in the doldrums before Lord Wenger turned up?

Really?

well you came out with that shite and haven't even bothered defending it so I'm questioning if your here as a WUM or if you really know fuck all about a club you claim to support. Even in our worst domestic season since the 1976 we got to a European Cup Winners Cup Final, and that was an exceptionally bad season for us when we finished twelfth. Where are your other examples?

I don't need to run through my list of credentials to prove 'I know fuck all about a club i claim to support". What a condescending shit you are. Have you even played the game or managed/coached? Anyone can go look up stats to proclaim ownership of the title of best supporter but from what I've seen theres very little support for the club on these pages. Fortunately the club has more class than some of its so called "Supporters".
I can't be bothered going through every bloody season to support my statement which was "many lowly seasons" NOT "in the doldrums" but are you telling me that you dispute we had some poor seasons which, if replicated in this day and age, wouldnt see Wenger sacked - he would be assasinated. I'm not aware of Wenger rorting the club and dealing with the likes of a Hauge. I don't recall any seasons with Wenger where we finished in the double digits, I ALSO don't recall any of those previous periods having a Russian billionaire and and Oil Sheik arriving on the seen. The league these days is also not a closed shop eyeing those sneaky foreigners from afar with suspicion and a strong dose of Xenophobia (although there's a fair sprinkling of that still in existance in the supporter base clearly). Ask yourself what has happened to Liverpool.....
And for the wikipedia jockeys here's some stats, i judge performance on league position so here they are -
(1970) 12,1,5,2,10,16,7,8,5,7,4,3,4,10,6,7,7,4,6,1,4,1,4,11,4,12
(1996) 5,3,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,4,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,4

[northbank123]

And for the wikipedia jockeys here's some stats, i judge performance on league position so here they are -
(1970) 12,1,5,2,10,16,7,8,5,7,4,3,4,10,6,7,7,4,6,1,4,1,4,11,4,12
(1996) 5,3,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,4,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,4

Ahh so you share Lord Wenger's view that (domestic) trophies are unimportant.

[Swifty]

And for the wikipedia jockeys here's some stats, i judge performance on league position so here they are -
(1970) 12,1,5,2,10,16,7,8,5,7,4,3,4,10,6,7,7,4,6,1,4,1,4,11,4,12
(1996) 5,3,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,4,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,4

Ahh so you share Lord Wenger's view that (domestic) trophies are unimportant.

Not unimportant but not appropriately reflective of the full measure of a season. The fact that the 79 FA cup final holds a very special place with me as an, at that time 11 yo striker that scored the last goal in the last minute the next day to win 3-2, is not lost on me.

[northbank123]

And for the wikipedia jockeys here's some stats, i judge performance on league position so here they are -
(1970) 12,1,5,2,10,16,7,8,5,7,4,3,4,10,6,7,7,4,6,1,4,1,4,11,4,12
(1996) 5,3,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,4,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,4

Ahh so you share Lord Wenger's view that (domestic) trophies are unimportant.

Not unimportant but not appropriately reflective of the full measure of a season. The fact that the 79 FA cup final holds a very special place with me as an, at that time 11 yo striker that scored the last goal in the last minute the next day to win 3-2, is not lost on me.

And just stating the league position is a fully reflective measure?

Take the 2008 and 2012 seasons. Just stating the league position puts them on equal footing. Ignores the fact that in the former we were in a title race for the whole season and finished 4 points off the champions in a season where English football completely ruled Europe, whereas in the latter we conceded 8 goals in a match to United and finished 19 points off two teams who couldn't qualify from their CL groups.

Reflective indeed.

[Henry Norris 1913]

but seriously- how were we in the doldrums before Lord Wenger turned up?

Really?

well you came out with that shite and haven't even bothered defending it so I'm questioning if your here as a WUM or if you really know fuck all about a club you claim to support. Even in our worst domestic season since the 1976 we got to a European Cup Winners Cup Final, and that was an exceptionally bad season for us when we finished twelfth. Where are your other examples?

I don't need to run through my list of credentials to prove 'I know fuck all about a club i claim to support". What a condescending shit you are. Have you even played the game or managed/coached? Anyone can go look up stats to proclaim ownership of the title of best supporter but from what I've seen theres very little support for the club on these pages. Fortunately the club has more class than some of its so called "Supporters".
I can't be bothered going through every bloody season to support my statement which was "many lowly seasons" NOT "in the doldrums" but are you telling me that you dispute we had some poor seasons which, if replicated in this day and age, wouldnt see Wenger sacked - he would be assasinated. I'm not aware of Wenger rorting the club and dealing with the likes of a Hauge. I don't recall any seasons with Wenger where we finished in the double digits, I ALSO don't recall any of those previous periods having a Russian billionaire and and Oil Sheik arriving on the seen. The league these days is also not a closed shop eyeing those sneaky foreigners from afar with suspicion and a strong dose of Xenophobia (although there's a fair sprinkling of that still in existance in the supporter base clearly). Ask yourself what has happened to Liverpool.....
And for the wikipedia jockeys here's some stats, i judge performance on league position so here they are -
(1970) 12,1,5,2,10,16,7,8,5,7,4,3,4,10,6,7,7,4,6,1,4,1,4,11,4,12
(1996) 5,3,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,4,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,4

there was absolutely no answer there at all, you picked out 1970 at random and matched it with 1996. Forgetting off course our 1970 team arguably had our best ever captain Frank McLintock, and we won our first European trophy (our other Euro trophy being won by another man who isn't called Arsene Wenger)
Apart from that you replicate the AKB argument of "The sheikhs and russians have ruined our great club" blah blah.

move along guys, I thought we were going to meet someone who could put together a substantial argument for wenger but no

[Swifty]

No 1970 wasn't random, I can hardly comment on much before I was born and therefore know little about although I accept that is not the norm on this forum. 'Move on guys'!! What are you? A petty street gang wielding your keyboard powers. What a sad pretender. You don't understand football, business, ethics and least of all the link between them all. I note you didn't rebut the assumption that you've never played or coached.
Yup, move on quickly before you accidentally learn something.

[Chippy]

No 1970 wasn't random, I can hardly comment on much before I was born and therefore know little about although I accept that is not the norm on this forum. 'Move on guys'!! What are you? A petty street gang wielding your keyboard powers. What a sad pretender. You don't understand football, business, ethics and least of all the link between them all. I note you didn't rebut the assumption that you've never played or coached.
Yup, move on quickly before you accidentally learn something.

But you're a very arrogant man. No doubt you've earned it.

[Swifty]

No 1970 wasn't random, I can hardly comment on much before I was born and therefore know little about although I accept that is not the norm on this forum. 'Move on guys'!! What are you? A petty street gang wielding your keyboard powers. What a sad pretender. You don't understand football, business, ethics and least of all the link between them all. I note you didn't rebut the assumption that you've never played or coached.
Yup, move on quickly before you accidentally learn something.

But you're a very arrogant man. No doubt you've earned it.

Yeah, if defending oneself against uncalled for aggressive comments is arrogant then guilty as charged. It's seems a few dont mind throwing the first one but the run to mummy when they get one back.

Put a friendly post on asking for assistance then get a barrage of tough guys taking the piss. Well a couple of posters warned this would happen. So be it. Btw yes I've earned what you call arrogance.

Who's next on tag team Xenophobe?

[arsenalmorris]

Oh yea Arsenal never won a trophy pre wenger did they

good luck with getting your DVD

[Swifty]

Oh yea Arsenal never won a trophy pre wenger did they

good luck with getting your DVD

Of course we did - joisus you lot are black and white.
And I realised it was a fruitless task after the first smartass replied so I kinda get this forum is pretty full of misery guts club haters.

NEXT.....

[JMascis666]

If I hear the old who could do a better job mantra rolled out one more time I think I may go nuts like that bloke in Falling Down.

[Skooner]

I doubt a DVD was made, no one apart from the club and the premier league would have the legal right to do so and very few fans would buy anything other than major matches which won trophies for the club so it isn’t worth their time and expense.

I think the reason you are coming up against a backlash is because although you are new to the site these arguments have entrenched views over several season. You aren’t saying anything people haven’t heard before from many posters. The argument that football has changed because of money actually cuts both ways, with our wage bill it would be almost criminal not to make top 4 and finish behind that lot down the road. No doubt we are in the position because of Wenger and the clubs decisions a decade or more ago but now the fans that are paying the highest prices in the world want to see some sort of return.

Perhaps my biggest gripe is where I see the biggest problems are nothing to do with the relative cash position, they are all non-money related. Tactics, defensive coaching, team spirit etc can be instilled by great leaders and the lack of them suggests Wenger is no longer that.

[Swifty]

I doubt a DVD was made, no one apart from the club and the premier league would have the legal right to do so and very few fans would buy anything other than major matches which won trophies for the club so it isn’t worth their time and expense.

I think the reason you are coming up against a backlash is because although you are new to the site these arguments have entrenched views over several season. You aren’t saying anything people haven’t heard before from many posters. The argument that football has changed because of money actually cuts both ways, with our wage bill it would be almost criminal not to make top 4 and finish behind that lot down the road. No doubt we are in the position because of Wenger and the clubs decisions a decade or more ago but now the fans that are paying the highest prices in the world want to see some sort of return.

Perhaps my biggest gripe is where I see the biggest problems are nothing to do with the relative cash position, they are all non-money related. Tactics, defensive coaching, team spirit etc can be instilled by great leaders and the lack of them suggests Wenger is no longer that.

Finally a rational human. Thanks mate. Yeah I get all that and the only reason I came out with those well worn arguments is because, being new, some of the old stagers clearly felt the need to test my bona fides. I never back down from a blue so I had to have my say. I appreciate a lot of people disagree.
My criticism of Wenger is that he doesn't have enough mongrel in him nor the players he buys. I actually think we do have a good style however we don't really have that hard edge that made the difference in the past. I do highly respect what he's done but unfortunately we are not an attractive option to the top class players. Even I'd we could buy them we can't afford their wages. To be honest that is the main issue and it is economic logic that has us handcuffed. Like it or not the new owners with deep pockets have created this difference - never in the past has the league had such a gap amongst teams in the top 6 in terms of capacity to pay wages and that is the telling factor of the past 5 years or so. I dare say had some of these new owners turned up around 2000 the we wouldn't have kept many of our dream team either.
Just what I think.

[I Hate Hleb]

Nice post Skooner and also a well thought out and reasoned analysis Swifty - certainly better than 'the 'Be careful what you wish for' argument put forward earlier which is the comment that I think got most people's back up on here.

[Swifty]

Nice post Skooner and also a well thought out and reasoned analysis Swifty - certainly better than 'the 'Be careful what you wish for' argument put forward earlier which is the comment that I think got most people's back up on here.

Thanks IHHleb. I actually thought he was excellent in the ball but just didn't have the confidence to take on the box but I digress.
The be careful what you wish for still applies nonetheless - as much as there are not many star players that want to come to a big club that doesn't or can't pay there are as many super managers that would not want to be hamstrung financially - Pep didn't go to Dortmund, Jose didn't go to Spurs, Pellegrini isn't going to Fulham.
PS team spirit means you don't take back players that left you and you don't keep ones that are looking at greener pastures.