As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
StuartL wrote:Personally, I have no problem with technology in football (providing it works)
Offside decisions could easily be made using technology (sky do it within seconds already) and many wrong decisions would be avoided.
It is barmy that commentators, viewers have better access to see the action than the poor sod trying to referee the match.
I would love to see a referee able to review the match, prior to sending in his report, and say for example had he seen Rooney dive he would have booked him / sent him off and a retrospective ban be applied for cheating. Who knows it might even stop cheats, especially if the retrospective ban was more severe.
Refs also need desperately need to be held accountable directly after a match to give their reasons for decisions - they are costing teams points, which as we all know equates to big bucks in todays football and the wrong call can lead to relegation.
And it won't end, mate. technology for offsides - then what?
Can't we accept the guy in the middle? Why do we have to have certainty about everything and have everything uniform? Human mistakes by players and refs.
If they technology exists, use it, why not, ?
Because surely the ref's would prefer to be making the right decisions 95 % of the time as opposed to guessing as they appear to do so now. Some decisions are so blatantly wrong it's making them a laughing stock.
I would rather be talking about the good football / goals than shitty refs and awful decisions that have affected the match result.
Exactly. I'd rather wait an additional minute or two while there's already a stoppage of play so that they can get the decision CORRECT.
Basically, while theres 5 players surrounding the ref screaming at him and the manager is yelling at the 4th official there could be a replay being reviewed by a panel of officials who could get the right call in MAX 2 minutes. It takes you what 15 seconds to see the right call on the TV? I don't see how it slows the game down at all.
StuartL wrote:Personally, I have no problem with technology in football (providing it works)
Offside decisions could easily be made using technology (sky do it within seconds already) and many wrong decisions would be avoided.
It is barmy that commentators, viewers have better access to see the action than the poor sod trying to referee the match.
I would love to see a referee able to review the match, prior to sending in his report, and say for example had he seen Rooney dive he would have booked him / sent him off and a retrospective ban be applied for cheating. Who knows it might even stop cheats, especially if the retrospective ban was more severe.
Refs also need desperately need to be held accountable directly after a match to give their reasons for decisions - they are costing teams points, which as we all know equates to big bucks in todays football and the wrong call can lead to relegation.
And it won't end, mate. technology for offsides - then what?
Can't we accept the guy in the middle? Why do we have to have certainty about everything and have everything uniform? Human mistakes by players and refs.
If they technology exists, use it, why not, ?
Because surely the ref's would prefer to be making the right decisions 95 % of the time as opposed to guessing as they appear to do so now. Some decisions are so blatantly wrong it's making them a laughing stock.
I would rather be talking about the good football / goals than shitty refs and awful decisions that have affected the match result.
Exactly. I'd rather wait an additional minute or two while there's already a stoppage of play so that they can get the decision CORRECT.
Basically, while theres 5 players surrounding the ref screaming at him and the manager is yelling at the 4th official there could be a replay being reviewed by a panel of officials who could get the right call in MAX 2 minutes. It takes you what 15 seconds to see the right call on the TV? I don't see how it slows the game down at all.
It doesn't need a panel of officials the 4th official could easily have access to a tv monitor and confirm, via direct communication with the ref within seconds that a foul was inside / outside the box or it was offside or their was a missed foul that the ref didn't spot or a blatant dive etc. As you said it takes a few seconds and the correct call is made in the vast majority of cases.
About time the game was cleaned up and cheats stop being rewarded and getting away with it.
As much as i don't like a lot of the current refs one other thing that needs addressing is the bullying/crowding of refs by players, intimidation is actually encouraged by managers these days and that is worrying.
Stop the cheats by getting players to stop cheating. Clubs can do that already.
This isn't about taking time to do something. It's about the neccessity to assert that everything can be assessed and corrected when most of it can't because of the intangibles (intent). We have cctv, phone taps, witness evidence...and a multiple of the guilty still get off.
Football is a game. Only a game. Stop treating it like a criminal process and the refs like an accessory.
You guys who support this are ruining it for the people who still cling on tothe few things that still connects us to it.
GoonerMuzz wrote:As much as i don't like a lot of the current refs one other thing that needs addressing is the bullying/crowding of refs by players, intimidation is actually encouraged by managers these days and that is worrying.
There have always been players who bully refs but I do think a turning point was when the Manure players chased that ref halfway round the pitch screaming at him for giving a penalty against them for the first time in about a million years. The sight of Roy Keane and a few others shouting at him for ages whilst he just ran away and then stood there doing nothing when he should have sent them off made players and managers see just how spineless a lot of them are and that they can be bullied so easily.
arseofacrow wrote:Stop the cheats by getting players to stop cheating. Clubs can do that already.
This isn't about taking time to do something. It's about the neccessity to assert that everything can be assessed and corrected when most of it can't because of the intangibles (intent). We have cctv, phone taps, witness evidence...and a multiple of the guilty still get off.
Football is a game. Only a game. Stop treating it like a criminal process and the refs like an accessory.
You guys who support this are ruining it for the people who still cling on tothe few things that still connects us to it.
but in terms of $$$ value it actually IS criminal when an obvious bad call can costs millions.
arseofacrow wrote:Stop the cheats by getting players to stop cheating. Clubs can do that already.
This isn't about taking time to do something. It's about the neccessity to assert that everything can be assessed and corrected when most of it can't because of the intangibles (intent). We have cctv, phone taps, witness evidence...and a multiple of the guilty still get off.
Football is a game. Only a game. Stop treating it like a criminal process and the refs like an accessory.
You guys who support this are ruining it for the people who still cling on tothe few things that still connects us to it.
but in terms of $$$ value it actually IS criminal when an obvious bad call can costs millions.
StuartL wrote:Personally, I have no problem with technology in football (providing it works)
Offside decisions could easily be made using technology (sky do it within seconds already) and many wrong decisions would be avoided.
It is barmy that commentators, viewers have better access to see the action than the poor sod trying to referee the match.
I would love to see a referee able to review the match, prior to sending in his report, and say for example had he seen Rooney dive he would have booked him / sent him off and a retrospective ban be applied for cheating. Who knows it might even stop cheats, especially if the retrospective ban was more severe.
Refs also need desperately need to be held accountable directly after a match to give their reasons for decisions - they are costing teams points, which as we all know equates to big bucks in todays football and the wrong call can lead to relegation.
And it won't end, mate. technology for offsides - then what?
Can't we accept the guy in the middle? Why do we have to have certainty about everything and have everything uniform? Human mistakes by players and refs.
If they technology exists, use it, why not, ?
Because surely the ref's would prefer to be making the right decisions 95 % of the time as opposed to guessing as they appear to do so now. Some decisions are so blatantly wrong it's making them a laughing stock.
I would rather be talking about the good football / goals than shitty refs and awful decisions that have affected the match result.
Exactly. I'd rather wait an additional minute or two while there's already a stoppage of play so that they can get the decision CORRECT.
Basically, while theres 5 players surrounding the ref screaming at him and the manager is yelling at the 4th official there could be a replay being reviewed by a panel of officials who could get the right call in MAX 2 minutes. It takes you what 15 seconds to see the right call on the TV? I don't see how it slows the game down at all.
And before you know it, football will be 4 quarters in case TV companies don't get a chance 2 advertise in a 2 min review. Meanwhile away fans have 2 book later and later trains.
Part of the fun is the controversy......and all teams think they are hard done by refs.
But it wouldn't be a two-minute review though, as others have said, you see replays within seconds of an incident, not minutes. Every PL ground could easily be fitted with a review booth. The 4th official would sit there, with access to all of the replays and would have a direct mic to the referee and could overrule based on the clear evidence he has. Diving would be harder to judge in a review, but offsides can be done in about 10 seconds, similarly handballs and penalties wouldn't take very long.
It won't ever happen but I wish it would, I hate hearing managers and fans moan about refereeing decisions, I'd much rather they were talking about the football being played.
Handballs? Plenty of controversial handballs people don't agree on where the arm is raised to a degree or around the face.
With offsides if there is a possible offside 5 or 6 passrs before the goal do you review? What about if there's an alleged foul in the other half and then 15 seconds later a goal is scored at the other end?
IF you think there is controversy now about referees favouring certain teams you wait until the use of reviews and decisions made becomes an issue. Imagine a borderline last minute review against United at old Trafford. Referees have the bottle to make big unpopular decisions in rugby, they don't in football.
I don't watch a lot of rugby; when even those involved can't understand all the rules then I have no chance. I have noticed however that in the few years since they started using replays, the referees seem reluctant to make any decisions off their own bat and refer things that were obvious to the naked eye. Probably because they're scared of being proved wrong later. If introduced to football I'm sure the same thing would happen. Things are best left as they are.
Just stick a fourth official in the commentary box. Preferably an ex referee with a wealth of experience. Let the guy see in instant replay what we all see at home. It would take seconds for the ref on the pitch to confer with him. If he chooses to do so.
It wouldn't slow the game down at all. And the correct decisions would be made FAR more often than at present.
GoonerMuzz wrote:As much as i don't like a lot of the current refs one other thing that needs addressing is the bullying/crowding of refs by players, intimidation is actually encouraged by managers these days and that is worrying.
There have always been players who bully refs but I do think a turning point was when the Manure players chased that ref halfway round the pitch screaming at him for giving a penalty against them for the first time in about a million years. The sight of Roy Keane and a few others shouting at him for ages whilst he just ran away and then stood there doing nothing when he should have sent them off made players and managers see just how spineless a lot of them are and that they can be bullied so easily.
It's an awful tactic but it's way worse in La Liga. It looks like the players are about to gang-rape the referee after every questionable decision in that league.
I personally don't see the purpose of the fourth Official.
Managers seem to love to scream and shout at them when they don't agree with a decision. The only consequence i've ever witnessed is that Manager being sent to the stands. They can't do fuck all, so why do Managers moan at them. All you get is a shrug of the shoulders!
As for players ganging up on the referee, and swearing at him quite directly needs addressing.
There's a difference in a player saying 'Oh, for fuck sake Ref' after a decision, and 'You fucking cheating *word censored* ref' showing such animated anger, that he spits when he talks!
baulbag wrote:I personally don't see the purpose of the fourth Official.
Managers seem to love to scream and shout at them when they don't agree with a decision. The only consequence i've ever witnessed is that Manager being sent to the stands. They can't do fuck all, so why do Managers moan at them. All you get is a shrug of the shoulders!
As for players ganging up on the referee, and swearing at him quite directly needs addressing.
There's a difference in a player saying 'Oh, for fuck sake Ref' after a decision, and 'You fucking cheating *word censored* ref' showing such animated anger, that he spits when he talks!
Theres more point to the 4th official than there is to the strange 2 standing by the goals at CL matches- that is bizarre
So among other things the 4th checks substitutes are ready to go on, nothing sharp anywhere ( ) that used to be the linos job so saves a few seconds, then the fourth judges the time added, and doubles or trebles it in Manchester.They keep the peace in the dugouts, and make sure that the manager doesnt stray from the technical area. They are I think miked up to the ref though seems rare that they add to any decision.
Oh and if the ball goes over the stand they put on a new ball.
I think they can contribute to the refs end of match report as well.
) that used to be the linos job so saves a few seconds, then the fourth judges the time added, and doubles or trebles it in Manchester.They keep the peace in the dugouts, and make sure that the manager doesnt stray from the technical area. They are I think miked up to the ref though seems rare that they add to any decision. 