Carabao Cup Final v pimped small club | 16:30 | Sunday 25/02

[robbo10]

Third goal went in, mass exodus and a big punch up on the concourse between Wenger in and out blokes. Welcome to 2018 Arsenal

AKB's are the enemy within the supporters, just as Wenger & Kroenke are the enemy within the club.

What amazes me is how anyone can still come up with a valid reason to support a clearly deluded and out-dated manager,let alone fight someone over it.What sane person can find any pro's for Wenger still?

[NickF]

Not complaining about people not turning up, it's their decision and I totally understand it. What pisses me off is coming on here and being called a mug and,as a season ticket holder,blamed for the state of the club.

I agree, doesn't matter really whether you go or not.
I just wish those who don't go would protest outside the ground and those that do go protest inside.

Instead we have this tragic situation where it is never quite the right time to protest.
(Not have a go at anyone personally).

[Ernie71]

Wenger with his trademark smirk right after a humiliating defeat as he's being interviewed.

This result is a blessing, after the inevitable Europa humiliation coming he will have nothing to save his arse.

Wouldn't bet on it I'm afraid. Milan are 7th in Serie A. If they were in the tougher PL they'd probably be battling it out with Watford and Bournmouth. They're a shadowy of their former self. Odds are well scrape past them.

Are Milan better than Bournemouth Swansea and Östersund? Yes

Roma 0 AC Milan 2 tonight

[wilko49er]

So glad i missed this Shite fest. Bit of culture, good food and drink is a far better way to spend a day. (in Russia for the weekend)

[silus]

Not complaining about people not turning up, it's their decision and I totally understand it. What pisses me off is coming on here and being called a mug and,as a season ticket holder,blamed for the state of the club.

I agree, doesn't matter really whether you go or not.
I just wish those who don't go would protest outside the ground and those that do go protest inside.

Instead we have this tragic situation where it is never quite the right time to protest.
(Not have a go at anyone personally).

Agreed mate. Half the problem is people who want to do something not agreeing or knowing what to do...the other half (and probably the biggest problem) is apathy.

[northbank123]

Tactically Wenger got it wrong. Surprised Jack was out wide left. He did alright but he's not that type of player. Ramsey should not have started. Welbeck on the left. Ozil and Jack were played out of position.
But is anyone surprised we lost? Nobody thought we would win, and a lot on here didn't want us to win.
City were average in the first 15 mins and we should have started with pace but we didn't. It was the way we lost not that we lost is the concern.

Surprised that Jack was out wide left insofar as he has been by some distance our best midfielder (if not player) since he got back fit again.

Not surprised from the sense that Ramsey and (inexplicably) Xhaka are two of Wenger’s favourites who he will crowbar into the side every week.

To be honest Welbeck on the left is a dire prospect too. Wenger makes some awful tactical and selection decisions but the squad is so far away from being competitive.

[rodders999]

Not a peep from any of the parasites on social media tonight so that’s one positive.

[bunch]

I’d like to wade in on the go/don’t go to the games debate. When I started supporting Arsenal fans mattered. There was an underlying belief in a truth that the more fans you had going through the turnstiles, the stronger a team you would be. It meant more money, better players, better football, trophies and glory. All of which would lead to more fans and the virtuous circle continued.

To avoid the vicious cycle of poor results, poor football and no fans leading to less money and cheaper players our culture as supporters has developed this sense of loyalty. Through thick and thin, good times and bad you support the club, you turn up and cheer no matter what. You didn’t change your team. “Glory Hunter” is a term of derision in football.

Things are different now. The impact of the fan through the turnstile on the economics of the “global brand” clubs in the Premier League is marginal. In fact, the correlation between size/loyalty of in stadium support and on field strength and performance is completely bust. How are Bournemouth, , Southampton, Burnley and Stoke able to be Premier League fixtures while Leeds, Sunderland, Sheffield (both of them) Aston Villa, and Birmingham City are not able to make it?

The main role of the fan in the stadium is as an audio-visual backdrop for the game being consumed by the TV audience. The money from TV, the real power in football now, would dry up if games were played in near empty, silent stadiums.

Being a football fan has always been like being in a dysfunctional romantic relationship. We love them but we are not sure they love us. The trophies and some of the great victories are orgasmic. But now we don’t get them very often and it seems like the object of our affection is just going through the motions. But now they don’t even need us and all pretense can be dropped.

I guess what I am saying is go or don’t go. It doesn’t make a difference. We know that seats can be sold to tourists and theatre-goer fans. Our American owner will be familiar with the pattern of season ticket ownership where the seat is used by the purchaser for big marquee games and for others it is sold on or left empty. Think about it, 1000 quid to see Manyoo, Citeh, Chelsea, Spurs, the Mickeys and maybe one good Euro game (AC Milan) That’s 167 quid a pop, not too bad a deal. And you might get some money back on flogging the lesser games.

Personally, I chucked my season ticket at the end of last season. The extension of Wenger’s contract was the act that made me realise the club doesn’t love me back despite my 46 years of loyalty. Like all broken relationships it will never be the same again. Even if the characters killing Arsenal, Wenger and Kroenke, go which would be the pre-requisite, coming back will be difficult for me.

[Bob Bayliss]

I’d like to wade in on the go/don’t go to the games debate. When I started supporting Arsenal fans mattered. There was an underlying belief in a truth that the more fans you had going through the turnstiles, the stronger a team you would be. It meant more money, better players, better football, trophies and glory. All of which would lead to more fans and the virtuous circle continued.

To avoid the vicious cycle of poor results, poor football and no fans leading to less money and cheaper players our culture as supporters has developed this sense of loyalty. Through thick and thin, good times and bad you support the club, you turn up and cheer no matter what. You didn’t change your team. “Glory Hunter” is a term of derision in football.

Things are different now. The impact of the fan through the turnstile on the economics of the “global brand” clubs in the Premier League is marginal. In fact, the correlation between size/loyalty of in stadium support and on field strength and performance is completely bust. How are Bournemouth, , Southampton, Burnley and Stoke able to be Premier League fixtures while Leeds, Sunderland, Sheffield (both of them) Aston Villa, and Birmingham City are not able to make it?

The main role of the fan in the stadium is as an audio-visual backdrop for the game being consumed by the TV audience. The money from TV, the real power in football now, would dry up if games were played in near empty, silent stadiums.

Being a football fan has always been like being in a dysfunctional romantic relationship. We love them but we are not sure they love us. The trophies and some of the great victories are orgasmic. But now we don’t get them very often and it seems like the object of our affection is just going through the motions. But now they don’t even need us and all pretense can be dropped.

I guess what I am saying is go or don’t go. It doesn’t make a difference. We know that seats can be sold to tourists and theatre-goer fans. Our American owner will be familiar with the pattern of season ticket ownership where the seat is used by the purchaser for big marquee games and for others it is sold on or left empty. Think about it, 1000 quid to see Manyoo, Citeh, Chelsea, Spurs, the Mickeys and maybe one good Euro game (AC Milan) That’s 167 quid a pop, not too bad a deal. And you might get some money back on flogging the lesser games.

Personally, I chucked my season ticket at the end of last season. The extension of Wenger’s contract was the act that made me realise the club doesn’t love me back despite my 46 years of loyalty. Like all broken relationships it will never be the same again. Even if the characters killing Arsenal, Wenger and Kroenke, go which would be the pre-requisite, coming back will be difficult for me.

A superb contribution which lays bare the reality of modern top-level football and the role of the attending customer (no longer supporter). For the first time you made me wonder if my 50-year relationship with the club will ever be repaired post-Wenger and Kronke, if I even live that long.

A final thought, though, on the "go or don't go, it doesn't matter" argument. It may very well not matter to them if we stop going as there are plenty of other mugs willing to take our places. The same might be true of a spouse if we were to walk out of a thoroughly abusive relationship. But it has to be good for us, for our sanity, our peace of mind. Don't tell me "it's fine, I accept the beatings because I love "her". By all means remember how happy "she"once made you but be clear that was then and "she" is now a thoroughly abusive lover and you need to get out for your own sanity, not keep throwing money at the bitch who keeps abusing you. Let someone else take your place now. I'm glad I did.

[DB10GOONER]

Let's look back at this result at the end of the season.

I maintain that the fluky FA Cup wins in 2014 and 2017 (contract renewal years) played a significant part in allowing him to cling on in spite of all the evidence that we were declining year on year. Others said "nonsense, he would have stayed regardless".

If he does go this summer instead of completing his current two-year contract then I will respectfully suggest I was right. Maybe - just maybe - some of you who were saying "oooh, it's a cup final, let's forget about Wenger and have a great day out" will regret that you found it easier to be seduced into ignoring the bigger picture and saving us more years of purgatory and decline.

Watch this post - and if I am proved wrong feel free to say so. But if I'm right.....look at yourselves in the mirror and wonder what the hell you were celebrating.

Revisionist bullshit. We were the better team in the 2017 cup final and only someone with a one dimensional but over riding agenda would even try pretend otherwise.

Similarly if you honestly believe losing the league cup is gonna see him sacked you are delusional.

Christ the club is in crisis and we have fans on here that can't see past "look at me - I was right".

Sacked over the league cup.... don't make me fucking laugh.

No sacked after 14 years of failure in the Prem.And dont say we cant compete with Man City Man Utd and Chelsea.Leicester fucking City competed with them

22 years of failure in the CL.But we cant compete with Barcelona Real Madrid and Bayern in the year of the Invincibles Porto won it and a year later the worst Liverpool team won it

We were murdered today this wasnt an unlucky defeat this was a repeat of the game at Wembley two weeks ago

Wenger inherited half of Grahams team he will leave his successor a pile of horseshit

And who exactly is going to sack him? The owner that doesn't give a flying shit about winning trophies in any of his sporting franchises? The owner that extended his contract after Wenger had failed to even do what Wenger himself set as a self defining target year after year - qualify for the CL.

And why the fuck would I say we can't compete with anyone? A decent manager would get far more out of this squad than Wenger ever will.

[Bob Bayliss]

Nobody seems to have picked up on the astonishing fact that this was our record margin of defeat in ANY cup final in the long, proud history of our club.

In fact, on only one other occasion have we lost any cup final by more than a single goal - the 1969 League Cup Final against Swindon (it was 1-1 after 90 minutes, 3-1 after extra time).

Well done Arsene - another claim to fame.

[Bradywasking]

Nobody seems to have picked up on the astonishing fact that this was our record margin of defeat in ANY cup final in the long, proud history of our club.

In fact, on only one other occasion have we lost any cup final by more than a single goal - the 1969 League Cup Final against Swindon (it was 1-1 after 90 minutes, 3-1 after extra time).

Well done Arsene - another claim to fame.

But Wenger says we were unlucky and their second goal was offside...The man clutches straws from even the most humiliating of days..

[DB10GOONER]

Tactically Wenger got it wrong. Surprised Jack was out wide left. He did alright but he's not that type of player. Ramsey should not have started. Welbeck on the left. Ozil and Jack were played out of position.
But is anyone surprised we lost? Nobody thought we would win, and a lot on here didn't want us to win.
City were average in the first 15 mins and we should have started with pace but we didn't. It was the way we lost not that we lost is the concern.

Is there a position, any position, in this formation that would suit ozil ? Sometimes you can play a player in a position that doesnt suit him and you can get away with it if he works hard to cover for his weaknesses, but ozil wont even work hard no matter where he is played I was 100% against getting him to sign a new deal because our team isnt good enough to carry a player like ozil for 85% of games, but to offer him a new deal worth 350k per week is utter lunacy

Have to agree. I've always rated Ozil as world class but he is world class in an extremely limited capacity... give him the ball and he can create assists for a top striker. He is the ultimate luxury player. We simply do not have the quality of players to carry a luxury player and we simply do not have a manager capable of signing the right players and utilising the right tactical system to get the best out of Ozil. I absolutely agree also we should not have extended his contract.... certainly not for 350K a week. Lunacy.

[DB10GOONER]

Nobody seems to have picked up on the astonishing fact that this was our record margin of defeat in ANY cup final in the long, proud history of our club.

In fact, on only one other occasion have we lost any cup final by more than a single goal - the 1969 League Cup Final against Swindon (it was 1-1 after 90 minutes, 3-1 after extra time).

Well done Arsene - another claim to fame.

But Wenger says we were unlucky and their second goal was offside...The man clutches straws from even the most humiliating of days..

I avoided his post match horseshit. But fuck me surely even he cannot believe that?

They absolutely outclassed us in every position. And they never even got out of second gear. The man is a deluded fucktard.

[Bob Bayliss]

Fergie had a luxury player in his successful United team......one David Beckham Great at crossing when no-one was marking him and could take a mean free kick. But in all other areas of the midfielder"s game, pretty weak.

Of course that United team had plenty of capacity to allow for Beckham's limited contribution - Keane, Scholes, Giggs... Ozil would have done just fine alongside those guys.

To that extent I sympathise with him, lazy overpaid bastard though he is.