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DB10GOONER
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Post by DB10GOONER »

I Hate Hleb wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:Jesus fucking cycling Christ. This is the worst thread we've had on here in a while - and that's saying something. I've had a couple of members ask me to lock it but I don't want to lock it because I believe in free speech and apart from it's pure awful shiteness and relentless repetitiveness there is no real justification to lock it.

Maybe just don't reply and let it slide off the page?
Isn't that enough justification? :shock: :roll: :wink: :lol: (Only kidding guys. I'm probably the only saddo that's read every single word of every post you've both written on the subject! :banghead: ) :lol: :lol: :wink:
I wish that were true... :( :lol: :wink:

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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

Nah, you seem like a skim-reader to me!! :oops: :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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DB10GOONER
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Post by DB10GOONER »

I Hate Hleb wrote:Nah, you seem like a skim-reader to me!! :oops: :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink:
I think you mean skin mag reader... 8)

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marcengels
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Post by marcengels »

DB10GOONER wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:Nah, you seem like a skim-reader to me!! :oops: :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink:
I think you mean skin mag reader... 8)
Clique!

:roll: :wink:

Iceman29
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Post by Iceman29 »

USMartin wrote:
Henry Norris 1913 wrote:US Martin = troll


its painfully obvious , he's been posting the same fucking post for months :banghead: :banghead: :roll:
NIce - I guess loyal supporters don't want to do anything about the state of the club. They enjoy being disappointed constantly I guess.
I'm fairly happy with the club at the moment. Disappointment from losing and glory from winning is part and parcel for every supporter of any football club.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

OF course you are Iceman, even if the Board admitted they had deliberately mis-led supporters to pursue policies that made them even wealthier than they alreay are to you that's the way it ought to be., We're here for them in your mindset and its never been the other way around. We're just the the engine for their investment. As you said earlier we have no right to question anything about the Board and its actions - we're here for them and they aren't here for us and that suits you fine.

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

USMartin wrote:Finally maybe the problem wioth the petition is supporters like you who just don't want to sign because well, they won't do anything anyway or whatever. As I have said before if we do say siomething it may not matter. But if we don't we know it won't matter. And maybe if if we won't this as much as we deserve then. Maybe we don't really want things to be better for the football club after all. Maybe we're at fault if we end mid-table or worse and sold to debt-leveraged owner ship then.

You want to attack me for not doing enough to get more people on this petition when people who shares the same concerns I do here would just rather not sign a petition for whatever reason. Maybe its people like you whio are the problem then. I'd rather think its simply that aren't enough signatures that is the problem. But if you want to put it down to me, fine, but where is your effort or action? Surely you could do a better job with this than I have apparently, except now iit seems you clearly don't want to try either. Who's that down to then?
:lol: :lol:

That's a clever response Martin, designed to switch the focus from you to me, however, as I'm sure we both know, you're totally missing the point.

My point was that, having made the effort to publish a petition (and well done for that sir! 8) ) you don't appear to have made much progress - in fact, 12 signatures in around 2 months is very poor, and suggests that perhaps your heart really isn't in it?

I know you like debating, and I can see your battle with Quartz has taken up a lot of time and effort, but you've certainly put infinately more time in debating with Quartz, and others on here, than you have focusing on promoting your petition down appropraite channels, and I find that very odd and misguided.

The fact that you're averaging less than 2 signatures a week suggests that you need to start pushing your petition harder! - go to other forums (where perhaps you have a clean slate), put across your thoughts in a clear, concise and polite manner, then invite them to sign the petition. I also would push the general point of the petition across instead of sharing your colourful views on the board and their intentions, as I'm not sure you're able to do so without seriously dividing opinion - and as that's not essential for this petition, I'd suggest you ease off a little bit! :wink:

Also, how about a website? or a facebook group? - something that allows people to join your campaign, learn more about your petition, and perhaps even contribute themselves? Also, perhaps even a letter in the fanzines? or try and get a supporters group onside?

I don't know, but there must surely be MANY avenues you've not explored - and considering the passion you obviously feel for this campaign, it just strikes me as odd that it hasn't progressed and appears to have stalled and stagnated :(

Take some of that energy and passion you use on the forum, and re-focus it on promoting your petition, and I'm sure you'll see plenty more signatures added to the dozen you've managed so far. A little tolerance and diplomacy wouldn't go amiss either - in truth, it's your conduct on the forum that makes me hesitate to sign, but my position remains open.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

It's this simple - people who choose to put personality differences before their concern for the club are part of the problem and not the solution.

This isn't about personalities or shouldn't be should it.

Either you are that concerned or you aren't. It truly is that simple.

It's like if you were starving and the only food left was food you simply couldn't stand. Are you going to starve to death or are you going to find the will to eat the food? We all know the answer - you will eat the food because the desire to live will trump your distaste for the food.If you are willing to die rather than to eat food you don't like that is solely your choice and ultimately your fault when you do die of starvation.

It is the same here. There is no reason anyone who shares the concerns adressed in the petition is not signing the peition other than in the end a lack of desire or urgency to do so and a lack of desire or urgency about the matter.

That is categorical fact. Otherwise as I say others would have set up their own petitions they believed would be more succesful than mine addressing those same concerns, and no one here appears to have done that. At this point. If the problem with my petition were solely down to it being my petition - why aren't they're others by those who share some of or all my concerns here posted where we all can sign them because we don't have to let personailties get in the way of doing so? Or is the fact that they do not in fact exist yet another coincidence in all of this?

You don't have to sign my petiton for any reason but that is still your choice. A better question would by you - or any number ofpeople here who share my concerns but can't bring themsleves to sign my petition according to you, haven't set up one petition they can sign?

Again - it doesn't matter why you choose not to sign it. If you choose not to sign it because

- you don't believe the concerns exopressed and genuine concerns and turst the Board

- you don't believe the Board would even read the petition

- you don't believe the Board would listen to or take positive actions after reviewing it

- you don't think an independent petition is appropriate action

- you don't believe independent action has the necessary credibilty

- you don't like the person behind the peition or how he pusrrsues supporters for it

- you don't want to offend other who don't like how I have addressed them

-- you don't want to get stick for signing this crazy guy's petition form anyone else

YOU still have chosen not to sign the petition and no one else has chosen for you. This would apply to you or many others here. And any reason you offer is really just an excuse for you choosing not to. After all its just a signature at this point. And the fact that none of you who share these concerns have sought either to join in this campaign when invited earlier ( I do not have to be leader of anything except no one else shows any desire to lead this

I would still be glad to work with you or anybody else willing to join in such an effort and let them take the credit because that would mean it got done and quite possibly more successfully). I would be glad to take a back seat to someone who might more effectively achieve what I am trying to achieve. We can't wait to protest like the socusers did. It's easy to protest when it's too late. Thing is it's as pointless as it is easy.

I know that just from here we could get another 40 signatures and there is no excuse for thiose people choosing not to because this isn't about me or you or anyone else - its about Arsenal.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

That was not to simply dismiss al or some of your suggestions g88ner some of which are very good but I am not the most computer-savvy guy - hell look at my typing :lol:

This was why I tried to intiate as this began a movement where more people were involved from the "creative" end. Add to that as we all know from the early days of the petition if these pages were simply my pages they would be alightning rod for personality driven behavior irrelevant to actually discussing the actual issues in a positive helpful manner.

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

Instead of explaining why you haven't worked hard to publicise your petition across the net, and to gooners outside of this forum, you've just focused in on why we haven't signed.

Surely you realise that the goonerforum is only a small island in a vast ocean of gooners? yet, we appear to be your sole focus, and that seems misguided if you want this petition to be a success.

I still have no idea what is holding you back. Is the website in development? how about the facebook page? - have other forums refused to sign, too? have the fanzines refused to let you write a letter or an article? etc. etc. hell, even a link to the petition, and a quick message, on your signature might help a little.

As I said, I'm not convinced you're pushing it hard enough, and I don't understand why. It's certainly not through a lack of passion, so what is it? - it's also not a time issue, as you've spent many an hour, and thousands of words, on the forum discussing this very issue... yet, little action seems to follow on your part.

It's easy to question us, and I understand your frustration, but until I think you're really pushing this, I'm reluctant to sign. As I said, your conduct is a an issue for me, however if I had a website to browse, or a facebook page to join, then maybe i'd find it easier to look past my misgivings about the author, and offer my support. But, up to now, I'm not convinced this is a serious campaign.

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

USMartin wrote:That was not to simply dismiss al or some of your suggestions g88ner some of which are very good but I am not the most computer-savvy guy - hell look at my typing :lol:

This was why I tried to intiate as this began a movement where more people were involved from the "creative" end. Add to that as we all know from the early days of the petition if these pages were simply my pages they would be alightning rod for personality driven behavior irrelevant to actually discussing the actual issues in a positive helpful manner.
I do believe it might be worthwhile signing up to several other forums, and treading a little softer than you have here - just my opinion, of course.

Your petition is a good idea, and much broader than your own personal opinions that are a tad controversial! :lol: - I feel that by posting on other forums, and NOT focusing in on your own opinions too much, would be a good start. Be more diplomatic, and try and avoid confrontation, and I genuinely believe you stand a better chance of getting people onboard.

As for a website or facebook - I have no idea how to set up either of those, but I'm sure it's something you can learn yourself or find someone who can! I think it's essential, to be honest.
Last edited by g88ner on Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

I just answered much of this - I am not especially computer-savvy and we need some people with some expertise in costructing and running these pages and as I said pages of my own inception alone would only invite harassment form the pro-Board crowd.

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QuartzGooner
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Post by QuartzGooner »

You are wasting your time G88ner.

I suggested to USMartin three months ago that he should set up a Facebook page, Twitter account etc.

He claims not to be computer savvy, but there is little technical knowledge needed to set up a Facebook page! In fact, if someone knows how to register for this Forum, then they have all the knowledge needed how to join Facebook.

This USMartin has been posting on Forums for over seven years, but claims he not learnt how to set up a Facebook page? :roll:

He is just a troll, out to waste people's time.

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

QuartzGooner wrote:You are wasting your time G88ner.

I suggested to USMartin three months ago that he should set up a Facebook page, Twitter account etc.

He claims not to be computer savvy, but there is little technical knowledge needed to set up a Facebook page! In fact, if someone knows how to register for this Forum, then they have all the knowledge needed how to join Facebook.

This USMartin has been posting on Forums for over seven years, but claims he not learnt how to set up a Facebook page? :roll:

He is just a troll, out to waste people's time.
Agree with much of that, to be honest. Plenty of excuses, and little action.

Although, I think a troll is someone whose main objective is to wind people up, and I'm not sure that's Martin's main objective, and is more a consequence of his abrasive and obsessive personality. Could be wrong though.
USMartin wrote:I just answered much of this - I am not especially computer-savvy and we need some people with some expertise in costructing and running these pages and as I said pages of my own inception alone would only invite harassment form the pro-Board crowd.
Hmm... seems like excuses to me.

Your petition has disappointed me a little, because I genuinely thought you would have put more effort into publicising it across the internet - yet, at present, it appears to be a little half baked :?

Is not being computer savvy a valid excuse? I don't think so. If you have the drive and determination, then you would have either learned how to set up a facebook group (how hard can it really be?? and have you even tried???) or got someone else to do it. Likewise a website, which although more complicated, should not be beyond you - and is more a challenge that should be overcome... not an excuse for your campaign to stall!

It just seems that despite the time, effort and volumes of words you've posted on the subject (over several years, and on several forums), your campaign/petition seems to be rushed, without direction and generally under-prepared - in fact, I'm fairly sure you've spent more time and effort debating/arguing with Quartz than you have spent on your campaign! - and that speaks volumes :(

You need to push your petition, and the campaign, harder - not here, as you've already saturated the forum with your views, but elsewhere... and, as I've said several times, I genuinely believe that 12 signatures (including your own) is more a reflection of your conduct on here than the petition itself (which it actually quite reasonable in parts) so be more diplomatic and less confrontational.... even if you don't agree with the views of others!

Anyway, you get out what you put in, so over to you... 8)

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

I think again a lot of people are eusing excuses for their own lack of action. You can call me out for my own but too many of you talk the talk but haven't taken one staep to walk the walk then accuse me of not going as far as I could.

I would also note no one seems to want to point out the lack of diplomacy consistently and constantly shown me from almost day one by a number of Gooners who do not agree with my views - making knowingly false accusations about me and my background, deliberately mis-representing my views, castins aspersions about my mental health, claiming repeatedly I'm not even a supporter. Even deliberately taking incidents at other forums out of context and ignoring information that changes the context of the events dramatically and continuing to do so even wheh aware of the facts.

But I am the undiplomatic one. No disrespect but you're full of it. And don't give that it's the internet crap either, because it works both ways. In all honesty I have been far more polite to most of the people I have dealt with and frankly I have never abused anyone who did not first abuse me. I'm sorry but just because some people have been here much longer than me I have no oobligation to treat them any better pr more respectfully than they treat me. And if you're honest that is what you're suggesting because you seem to ignore so much of the undiplomatic behavior toward me.

And it shouldn't be hard to ignore it because as Quartz himself suggested much of it comes from a very few very vocal individuals whom to a man happen to disagree strongly if not completely with my views. But its no less undiplomatic or polite or considerate than you try to suggest I am, and its sheer hypocrisy to suggest otherwise for any reason.

And again your effort to blame me for the lack of will to take action is just excuse making for those who lack the will to act. Why should I act when its clear too many Gooners here believe their acting will make no difference - just like certain people who disagree with me have preached here trying to discourage them. Why should I try to do all these extra things that I lack experience in doing? The bottom line is your lack of desire to sign is solely on you no matter what and take responsibility for your own decision for once because I won't relieve you of that burden.[/b]

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